Government Operations Committee on April 3rd, 2014

[David Eaves]

I agree; I think there are criteria that we need to be worried about. The first would be making sure that we're not releasing data that has personal information in it, or at least not releasing data that has personal information that we don't want to be releasing. I'm quite happy to release who the directors of companies are, but I certainly don't think the government should have a role in releasing my personal health care data. That would be one.

Around IP, intellectual property, I get that it's a concern, although my personal feeling is that if something is government-funded, then tax dollars went to create that. It is already a public asset. By assigning the IP to a private company, we're actually doing a disservice to Canadians. So I'm not so concerned about the IP element of this.

I'll leave it at those two. I want to make sure everybody else has a chance to share something.

[Dr. Renée Miller]

In terms of privacy, I think it's important to note that privacy is not just about releasing individual data, releasing the name of somebody and their medical status. Aggregate data actually can also release personal information. It's important that statisticians and so forth are very careful about the aggregate data, that you can't learn information about individuals from aggregate data. There are well-known cases of this where you can infer information about a public figure's medical records from the release of aggregate data. I think that's incredibly important in terms of privacy and what we release.

In terms of IP, I think there are very good open licences out there. Just as we have open licences for software, there are open licences for data that retain the IP on the information and let it be used for the public good. I think those licences are evolving still, but there is a good trend in those licences that lets you release your data while still maintaining ownership over that data. That's also an important point.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

What do you think about that, Ms. Dybenko?

[Ginny Dybenko]

Obviously privacy issues are huge with big data, never mind just open data. I have often felt you almost need a magna carta along with big data, and that would include notice that predictions based on big data had taken place, and what's been predicted, and how; an opportunity for feedback or a hearing, if you like, if the individual has an issue with that; and then finally audit trails that record the basis of predictive decisions.

I think although not all open data is obviously personally attributable, there is a need to consider those three basic tenets, if you like, across big data as well.

[Mark Gayler]

I think my colleagues have said it very well. We have to be careful, obviously, about sharing open data with personal, private information. By and large that does not happen except in specific circumstances.

But there is data that can be shared that would historically or traditionally be considered sensitive that has tremendous value, and I'd like to give you a very quick example of that, particularly around health data and crime data, for example.

Citizens are very interested in crime data. Where is crime occurring, and how frequently is it occurring? You share the data in terms of trending. In statistical data you don't obviously give intimate details around who committed the crime, or who the victim of the crime was.

A real benefit of this happened recently in the U.K. where in one of the cities they analyzed the influx of patients in the city hospitals over a weekend. They combined that with violent crime in the area around bars and restaurants in that city. Between these different agencies—the hospital, the police, and bars and restaurants—they took a collective decision to start serving plastic glasses in bars and restaurants because they realized I think it was up to 40% of the emergency cases in the hospital were caused by fights and violent activities occurring around bars and restaurants.

So here's a great example where you're sharing data in a way that's not sharing personal, private information, it's anonymized data, but it enables a decision to be made that probably wouldn't have happened had that data not been shared in the first place and shared in particular among different government agencies.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you for your answers.

Would anyone like to add something?

Go ahead, Mr. Eaves.

[David Eaves]

Just to keep it brief, I would say I hope I have impressed on this committee the responsibility it has when thinking about this issue.

A lot of people are going to come before you and talk about the huge opportunity and the money. This stuff matters. I want you to be thinking holistically about this, not just about software, but about analysis, and about how we can be using this to change the way government works and increase the productivity and effectiveness of government.

And also about the responsibility around the politics of data, and that you can't escape that. You need to be thinking about that.

I am here at the disposal of this committee. You should feel free to call upon me any time, and if you want information or ideas, you would be more than welcome to write me an email in French or in English, and I will respond as quickly as I possibly can to get you the best possible information to inform your decisions.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you.

Ms. Miller, did you want to add anything?

[Dr. Renée Miller]

Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify on this panel. I think it is a very important issue. I'll reiterate that. And I think you are going to be amazed at the kinds of things Canadians can do with your data.

We have a lot of creativity out there in the community, and I think you will have some wonderful surprises in the future and great things.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Mr. Gayler, did you want to add anything?

[Mark Gayler]

Thank you very much for inviting me to participate. Obviously the area I specialize in is technology so if I can be of assistance to committee members around technology issues, I'd be very happy to do that.

In closing I think it's a tremendous opportunity. We have a long way to go in the world with open data, the way it's being published, the way it's being consumed, and how transformational it can be. I think Canada has a wonderful opportunity to be even more of a leader in this area, and so I'm looking forward to what happens next.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Ms. Dybenko, you have the last word.

[Ginny Dybenko]

As the others have said, thanks so much for including me in this discussion.

To reiterate, I think that although there will be huge challenges associated with grappling with the obvious benefits that could come out of open data, I strongly believe that one of the most important benefits will be the engagement of a populace, particularly a younger demographic, that today feels very disconnected from government processes.

Thank you again.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

I want to thank the committee members, as well as Ms. Miller, Mr. Eaves, Ms. Dybenko and Mr. Gayler for their time, especially those of you who are on Vancouver time. I am sure their expertise will greatly benefit the committee during the rest of its study.

The committee will meet again next Tuesday.

The meeting is adjourned.