Government Operations Committee on March 10th, 2015

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

The statutory expenditures are comprised of committed government funding that parliamentarians voted through past legislation. Employment insurance is a good case in point, or CPP payments. Voted expenditures represent government funding contained in legislation that has not yet been passed by Parliament. They would approved by Parliament through appropriation or supply bills.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you, Ms. Young.

That concludes our first round of questioning.

Before I go to the second round, I wonder if I could ask the minister a point of clarification on a comment you made earlier?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Sure.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

You said in response to a question from Mr. Warkentin, I believe, that estimates are subservient to the budget. We've done a lot of studying about the estimates, partly under the tutelage of Mr. Matthews, to help the committee get up to speed on the constitutional importance of the estimates.

Is it not true that the estimates are where you come to Parliament to ask permission to spend money? In my view, that kind of trumps the budget, which is more or less a statement of how you plan to spend that money that we've given you permission to spend.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

That is certainly a more elegant way to put it, Mr. Chairman, so thank you for that.

I would only add that estimates are sometimes not the last word on all spending. I think that's a more accurate way to put it.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

That's fair enough. That's clear.

Mr. Ravignat, you have five minutes, sir.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

The Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency is being cut $13.6 million. That's a whopping 44% of its budget. It's mostly in programs related to aboriginal consultations.

Is this a pipeline approval cut? Is that what's going on?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Mr. Matthews might have some details.

[Bill Matthews]

I will, and if need be Mr. Pagan can help me out.

This is another example, Mr. Chair, of sunsetting programs so the last word, as the minister said, is not the main estimates. There are some programs that are expiring, and we will know in the coming weeks and months the extent to which they have been—

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Why would programs related to aboriginal consultation be expiring?

[Bill Matthews]

Basically, the way the government programming works is that most programs are put in place for five years at a time. After five years they go through an evaluation.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

So it's a political decision that they are not being renewed.

[Bill Matthews]

No, that's not what I said, Mr. Chair.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

I know that's not what you said. That's just an additional question.

[Bill Matthews]

Programs are put in place for five years, generally speaking. There's an evaluation. At the end of that evaluation there are basically tweaks recommended to the continuation of programs or in some cases there are recommendations that the program not be continued.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

And those recommendations go to the minister's office, and the minister's office either approves or disapproves, so it's a political decision.

[Bill Matthews]

The decision to actually continue is....

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Minister, you do have a constitutional obligation, a legal obligation, to consult aboriginal people when it comes to these types of projects.

Can you tell me these cuts are not going to put into question that obligation to consult?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

We do have an obligation to consult on certain aspects of the relationship. I don't think there's a veto by first nations groups or any other group in Canadian society on the budget. That's the primary role of Parliament.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

But will the sunsetting of these programs put into question that consultation process?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I certainly hope not, unless people get scared by the rhetoric of the opposition, but I'm sure you wouldn't want to do that.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Okay.

Moving on....

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

Just before.... There's a....

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Moving on....

With Bill C-51 there are some major new powers given to CSIS, right?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Sorry. Say that again.