Government Operations Committee on March 1st, 2018

[Matthew Shea]

Certain information has been released through access to information from various departments on Phoenix as a project. As my colleague mentioned earlier, cabinet confidences and advice to cabinet and the Prime Minister are confidential and therefore would not have been released.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Fair enough.

My second question is regarding the working group of ministers. Is there a role that you play in the process?

The reason I ask is that we've had some hiccups with the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, and you had asked for money. I was wondering whether, (a), if PCO has any role as an oversight agency, because you're independent and non-partisan; and (b), how will this working group move and what are the results that are expected from it?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

Mr. Chair, can I respond to that question.

The Working Group of Ministers on the Review of Laws and Policies Related to Indigenous Peoples is quite separate from the inquiry and—

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I know. I'm just making a comparison because I didn't want to get into anything else, but you can answer the national inquiry issue.

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

Yes, so the national inquiry is independent from government. The Privy Council Office has provided administrative support as it does for all types of inquires on external bodies, for example, setting up contracting and that type of thing, but the inquiry is run by the inquiry.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Then who's responsible for the reporting? If they haven't used government funds properly, who's responsible for the governance structure? How does PCO give money and not have an oversight role?

[Matthew Shea]

I will somewhat tackle that.

The inquiry is fully independent. Under the Inquiries Act it gets administrative support from PCO, so my team provides administrative support, whether that's financial, IT, accommodations, HR, but at arm's length. What I mean by that is we don't decide, is this a good expenditure or a bad expenditure. We decide, is this a loss or expenditure.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Then you don't get involved in the operational side?

[Matthew Shea]

Absolutely not.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

You've got two minutes.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Good, good, thank you.

Explain to me about this working group. Are you playing any role in that working group, or are you giving any advice? Are there some challenges that you think are being faced currently, or they will face next?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

The role of the working group of ministers, Mr. Chair, as I mentioned earlier, is quite a broad mandate. It is looking at government policies and laws and operational procedures in the context of advancing reconciliation and the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, for example. There isn't a relationship with the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls inquiry, although of course in stakeholder engagement some of the groups and representatives that the working group has met with have also probably had discussions with the inquiry, but that would be the extent of it.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

No, my question, the national inquiry is now answered. You answered that question, but I was more interested in this working group of ministers, what is the role you are playing to support them? Are there any challenges that you perceive?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

The role, Mr. Chair, that the Privy Council Office plays in supporting the working group is to support the committee of ministers. That really is organizing the engagement sessions. It's providing briefs and analysis supporting the committee functioning in a secretarial way, probably very similar to the role the clerk of this committee is playing, as well as the analysts.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to a series of five-minute interventions, starting with Mr. McCauley.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Welcome back.

A couple of MPs are under third-party investigations on harassment charges. Is that money coming out of PCO?

[Matthew Shea]

No, it is not.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Which department is it coming out of?

[Matthew Shea]

It's not being paid for by the government, however, an investigation into a member of cabinet, for example, could rightfully be charged to the public purse—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

[Inaudible] being paid from outside of government?

[Matthew Shea]

Outside of government.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Oh, wow, that's interesting.

In the interim estimates, there's $37.5 million, and one of the items is the PM's residence, obviously at Harrington Lake. Can you give me what the costs are of maintaining 24 Sussex Drive as it sits empty, and what the costs are on maintaining Harrington Lake? I know it was in the estimates last year, and I think in the supplementary estimates (B) it was half a million for chimney work and window work. I'm wondering how much of that $37.5 million is for the two residences?

[Matthew Shea]

That question would be best posed to the NCC, as that would not fall under our mandate or vote—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It's in your interim estimates, so...

[Matthew Shea]

Our vote definition mentions the residence. We pay certain costs for the first family. Certain costs are reimbursed, and that's all that this covers. We're not part of the renovations to 24 Sussex, as an example.