Government Operations Committee on April 24th, 2018

[Elyse Allan]

—the least likely to take risk. On a nascent technology, sometimes you think about the cost benefit of it, but there is the opportunity on energy saving or conservation. I think we have examples of where governments encourage it, but how do we do more of that? That's where we're creating the demand, demand pull, because we're saying that we're looking for creative ideas in this area.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I think that one goes nicely with the first pillar, which is basically outcome based. The government might be able to explain what the outcome is that they're looking for without having the detail.

[Elyse Allan]

That's right.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

This is such a new approach in technology that all the details might not be there.

[Elyse Allan]

Right. We saw that when I was on a panel for the Ontario government last year that was specifically on procurement in health care. I think one of the key recommendations that came out of that was that we tend to be very prescriptive in what we're looking for as opposed to—to Annette's point—allowing these small businesses that have these really creative, interesting ideas like we see at MaRS.... We're both on the board at MaRS. They don't have a place to bring them, because somebody has already prescribed the solution as opposed to letting blockchain ideas be proposed.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I'd like to thank you, because now the four pillars really make sense to me, at least going from an outcome base and using the fourth pillar, which is a demand-pull program, to make sure it is outcome based rather than very prescriptive. Then there is the supply push opening that environment for support of innovation, which is the government's agenda, and then the set-aside, which basically establishes a target. Then, when we get into the targeted procurement, collecting data and reaching out to the women and removing all those barriers that they talked about, they all nicely fit together now. I'd like to thank you for that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Colleagues, we have time for one more intervention of five minutes.

Mr. McCauley and then Madam Ratansi.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I have just one question, but I suspect you may need the whole five minutes.

This is with regard to the four pillars of issues that are barriers. From your time down in the U.S. at the round tables, are these the same issues they're experiencing there? Are they doing anything specifically different that we should follow up on here? One of them is the entrepreneurial side versus the family side. That's a much bigger, complex issue than we're going to be able to tackle. Are they doing something specifically down in the States that we should look at immediately here?

[Annette Verschuren]

I have worked for U.S. companies. I have worked in the States for a couple of years. They're advanced in terms of their procurement programs. They're advanced in terms of their innovation programs. They use the Department of Defense and EPA very effectively. There's a lot more activity in the United States than in Canada, on a per capita basis.

We do a lot of research in Canada, but we cannot bring it to commercialization effectively. We invest less in ICT in Canada, by 40% relative to U.S. small businesses. We also invest 30% less in machinery and equipment. We need to accelerate on these challenges that we have. The American women had about the same issues, with maybe less access to capital. They're fighting the same things we are, but they are a bit further ahead than I believe we are.

I saw that experience when I was running Home Depot. I ran the Expo Design Center in the U.S. We had two people assigned for women diversity programs. Every time we bid on a federal government contract, we would teach, we would have seminars, we would have conferences and bring women in. They do that more.

Elyse said that 98% of the private sector has diversity programs. It's not the case in Canada, so our government and our private sector are behind.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It would do us well to study—

[Annette Verschuren]

Yes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

—their processes a lot more.

[Annette Verschuren]

Absolutely. I think they do a lot of good things. That's why Elyse and I are not recommending creating anything new here. Let's take the best of what we can see around the world. Particularly, we've spent more time in the United States looking at this, and we see successes that we need to bring back to Canada.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Do you have anything, Elyse?

[Elyse Allan]

No, I think Annette answered it well.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Could I take two or three minutes?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Yes.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you very much for being here. You are two powerful women who have broken the glass ceiling. I remember my days in receivership, when I was the only female in receivership, and I was going, “There's nobody around.”

Do you mentor women entrepreneurs, and do you sit down and mentor men entrepreneurs as well? The young people are very interested in integration. I went to a STEM camp in my riding. It was women leading the STEM camp, and the creativity they brought and the students who participated were fantastic.

Is there a mentorship program that you guys run?

[Annette Verschuren]

Oh, God; we do it as a part of our lives. I wrote a book two years ago just about leadership. We're inundated all the time. We have mentors. I mentor men, I mentor women—more women than men. Elyse and I over-mentor, I know. But sponsoring is really important too. There's a difference between mentorship and sponsorship.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Yes.

[Annette Verschuren]

We need to sponsor women. The men around the table have women in their organizations. They need to sponsor them at the executive tables when decisions are made on careers. There has to be much more of that.

We do it one on one. We do it collectively. We do it as much as we can.

Elyse.

[Elyse Allan]

I'm meeting with people weekly, answering questions. With pretty much any student or anyone who has called, I don't think I've ever not either taken them on as a mentee or not met with them and at least provided initial guidance or set up other mentors. I think it's very valuable for a lot of women, whether they're in the corporate or the entrepreneurial world.

The second thing is that, as a company, we've done two things that I love. One is that we have worked very closely with an organization called Actua, which focuses on trying to get young people into STEM. They also have specific programs for both indigenous communities and women. GE has a whole host of volunteers in volunteer group that works with Actua to help try to get those young people, particularly young women, engaged in STEM.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I just want to make one more comment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Please do.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

When you are mentoring men versus women, you probably find that the men think, “Oh, yes, I'm entitled to it”, and the women think, “Oh, my God, can I do it?”