Evidence of meeting #127 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was women.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Cass Chideock  Deputy Director, Small Business Policy Team, Crown Commercial Service of the United Kingdom
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Patrick Williams
Annette Verschuren  O.C., Chair and Chief Executive Officer, NRStor Inc., Canada-United States Council for Advancement of Women Entrepreneurs and Business Leaders
Elyse Allan  President and Chief Executive Officer, GE Canada, Canada-United States Council for Advancement of Women Entrepreneurs and Business Leaders

11:50 a.m.

Deputy Director, Small Business Policy Team, Crown Commercial Service of the United Kingdom

Dr. Cass Chideock

I suspect it was for a number of reasons. Yes, it was probably the right time in the life cycle to choose that market. It's probably a market where users on all sides are relatively familiar with using electronic procurement systems. It was the right time and the right place, I suspect.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Thank you very much.

Our final intervention will come from Madam Ratansi for five minutes, please.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON

Thank you very much.

I have two quick questions. The U.K. has set a target of approximately 33% of central government procurement to use SMEs. Canada does not have a set-aside.

In the U.S., $3,500 to $150,000 must be exclusively set aside.

What sort of set-asides in dollar terms do you know you have in the U.K.?

11:50 a.m.

Deputy Director, Small Business Policy Team, Crown Commercial Service of the United Kingdom

Dr. Cass Chideock

We don't use set-asides. Though our targets are always aspirational, we'll aim to hit the target through levelling the playing field rather than by—

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON

So how do you track it? How do you track your success or failure?

11:50 a.m.

Deputy Director, Small Business Policy Team, Crown Commercial Service of the United Kingdom

Dr. Cass Chideock

My team and I spend a lot of time analyzing what is being spent in central government directly or indirectly with SMEs. That's how we track it.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON

Okay.

A procurement policy note on supply chain visibility, published by CCS, says that all procurements over five million pounds should update their terms and conditions to include subcontractors. I'm trying to figure out how you pursue that. What are some of the venues in which that becomes transparent and people can see that subcontract for people in contracts over five million pounds in which they have put a subcontractor in? How do you track that? Do you have a tracking mechanism?

11:55 a.m.

Deputy Director, Small Business Policy Team, Crown Commercial Service of the United Kingdom

Dr. Cass Chideock

We require them to publish on Contracts Finder. Contracts Finder is effectively our tracking system. We will also be working with departments to follow up. The public procurement policy note puts the requirement on departments to work with their successful suppliers to make sure that process will happen.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON

Do you actively go out or does the procurement department go out and encourage SMEs to apply? Is there a networking session that you do? Is there any way that you can fully engage the SMEs? We're trying to engage SMEs. There are lots of SMEs, especially women-run SMEs, and we're finding.... I was just in Halifax, and women were saying that they didn't know about our study and they'd like to participate. Despite the fact that we give out information, we're finding challenges. What sorts of challenges are you finding?

11:55 a.m.

Deputy Director, Small Business Policy Team, Crown Commercial Service of the United Kingdom

Dr. Cass Chideock

I think one of the hardest things is reaching out and communicating the message, as I said earlier, that government is open for business. I'm not going to say that we are as successful as I would like us to be. We use a lot of social media. We use Emma Jones, our crown representative. She runs free webinars, and we advertise them on social media and on our websites. We engage with trade organizations, the Confederation of British Industry, the federation of small businesses, and a tech-focused one called techUK to try to get them to spread their message.

I'm continually looking for new opportunities to get that message out. I think we're just touching the tip of the iceberg in terms of reach.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON

Do you have any last thoughts on how we could learn from your experiences or from the challenges you face?

11:55 a.m.

Deputy Director, Small Business Policy Team, Crown Commercial Service of the United Kingdom

Dr. Cass Chideock

I don't think so. I would say that I feel there are questions I've not been able to answer. If the committee would like us to follow up with written answers, I would be more than happy to take that on, if that would be helpful.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Thank you very much. In fact, I was about to say in conclusion that if you have any additional information you think would be of benefit to our committee as we complete our study, I would encourage you to submit all of your comments and suggestions to our clerk.

We'll be, probably within the next two to three weeks, actively finalizing our report, so if you can get your comments, suggestions, and recommendations to our clerk as quickly as possible, that would be much appreciated.

Dr. Chideock, I know we've probably imposed on your personal time for you to be with us here today. We thank you very much for that. Your testimony has been extremely helpful.

Colleagues, we'll suspend for about five minutes as we set up for our next video conference witnesses.

Once again, Dr. Chideock, thank you very much and have a great day.

11:55 a.m.

Deputy Director, Small Business Policy Team, Crown Commercial Service of the United Kingdom

Dr. Cass Chideock

My pleasure. Thank you.

Noon

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Colleagues, let's reconvene.

We have two witnesses with us today as we continue our study on small and medium enterprises in federal procurement.

In person we have Madam Verschuren, Chair and Chief Executive Officer of NRStor Inc. By video conference we have Elyse Allan, President and Chief Executive Officer of GE Canada.

Thank you both for being here. My understanding is that, Madam Verschuren, you will be starting testimony by giving a brief statement, approximately five minutes, and then we'll go to Madam Allan. Is that correct?

Noon

Annette Verschuren O.C., Chair and Chief Executive Officer, NRStor Inc., Canada-United States Council for Advancement of Women Entrepreneurs and Business Leaders

Yes.

Noon

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

I think you know the process, Madam Verschuren, so the floor is yours.

Noon

O.C., Chair and Chief Executive Officer, NRStor Inc., Canada-United States Council for Advancement of Women Entrepreneurs and Business Leaders

Annette Verschuren

Thank you very much.

Do we have 10 minutes together or just five minutes?

Noon

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

We'd like five minutes each, if you could.

Noon

O.C., Chair and Chief Executive Officer, NRStor Inc., Canada-United States Council for Advancement of Women Entrepreneurs and Business Leaders

Annette Verschuren

Absolutely. We planned for this.

Thank you very much, committee members, and thank you, Mr. Chair, for the invitation to appear in relation to the study on small and medium enterprises in federal procurement.

Let us provide some background about ourselves and our work with the Canada-United States Council for Advancement of Women Entrepreneurs and Business Leaders, and the role that federal procurement can play in creating a strong and vibrant economy.

I am Annette Verschuren, and I am the Chair and CEO of NRStor Inc., an energy storage development company. Prior to this role, I served as president of Home Depot Canada and Asia, overseeing the growth of the company's Canadian operations from 19 to 179 stores between 1996 and 2011.

My colleague Elyse Allan, a great friend and partner, is President and CEO of GE Canada and Vice-President of GE. Elyse leads GE Canada's growth across its business portfolio while also building GE's innovation and digital capacity.

Led by top executives in the United States and Canada, the women's council has a mandate to develop advice to help boost women's economic engagement. We share the many inspiring stories of progress and successful women to motivate others to follow their lead.

Extensive research proves that there is an economic advantage in female leadership in the workforce. Being a female leader in the workforce for 41 years, I can guarantee you that. Our work, divided into five pillars, will contribute to the increased economic growth, integration, and competitiveness of Canadian and U.S. economies. To date, the women's council has released three pillars. They are supporting and growing women-owned businesses; increasing the number of women in science, technology, engineering, and math; and attracting women entrepreneurs, encouraging women to start businesses. Two additional pillars—increasing women's access to capital and the advancement of women as leaders in the private sector—will be released in the coming months.

As the champions of the first report, “Supporting and growing women-owned businesses”, we identified the following barriers affecting women business owners. They include access to growth capital; lack of access to talent, networks, and expertise; the pressure to choose between entrepreneurship and family obligations; and the persistent social and psychological biases.

Today we will focus on how the government can support women-led SMEs through implementing a supplier diversity program. We will also highlight the power of procurement to spur innovation, as discussed in the Advisory Council on Economic Growth's paper “Unlocking Innovation to Drive Scale and Growth”, released in February 2017.

There are challenges and barriers for women in business, but multiple studies show a strong business case for investing in women entrepreneurs. Research has found that businesses observe 15% in additional profit when the share of women in leadership positions rises from zero to 30%. Companies with at least one female founder outperformed all male-founded teams by 63% over the past 10 years.

Several studies, including those done by RBC and the Center for Women's Business Research, found that increasing the number of women-owned small businesses in Canada could add $198 billion to Canada's GDP. Yet, despite starting nearly half of all new businesses, women owned fewer than 15% of businesses with 100-plus employees in the U.S. and Canada. Just to be totally accurate, it's 15% in the U.S. and it's 7% in Canada.

Access to growth capital is critical for success. In both Canada and the United States, firms with at least one female founder received less than 16% of all venture capital funding. There are too few women in decision-making roles in the financial services, asset management, and private equity sectors, and only 7% of partners at leading venture capital firms are women. Women have a smaller pool of fellow entrepreneurs, technical talent, and informal advisers to tap as they start and scale companies. This makes it harder for women to get introduced to potential customers, partners, and investors, and as a result grow their companies.

Elyse.

12:05 p.m.

Elyse Allan President and Chief Executive Officer, GE Canada, Canada-United States Council for Advancement of Women Entrepreneurs and Business Leaders

Thanks, Annette.

I would like to thank the committee for accommodating the logistics and allowing me to participate by telepresence.

I'll talk briefly about targeted procurement. Procurement programs are really a very important way for growth-oriented businesses to access capital and networks. In the United States, small businesses that became suppliers to large corporations and governments saw their revenue grow by 250% on average and their number of employees grow by an average of more than 150%. Large contracts such as those that are offered by government and large companies can also serve as collateral, which allows the entrepreneurs to secure loans. If you will recall, Annette mentioned that access to capital is one of the barriers we see facing many women trying to scale their businesses. Procurement programs also give entrepreneurs more credibility when they're seeking this outside capital, and it helps them also link into larger supply chains.

Our work has highlighted the benefits of increasing access for companies that are 51% or more owned, operated, and controlled by such under-represented groups as women. For example, Accenture and General Motors are terrific examples of large companies that have used such programs to drive better results for the bottom line. At Accenture, having a diverse supply chain has been a strategic priority for more than 20 years. Through their program, Accenture now spends about 30% of total procurement on diverse suppliers, with 6% to 8% of that going to women-owned businesses.

There's a strong business case for targeted supplier programs. Reports by the World Economic Forum as well as Canada's Conference Board outline important benefits. These include things like increased customer satisfaction, because the customers see you working with a diverse supplier base; higher revenues; better employee retention, because of the connection employees see to that reach-out in terms of a diverse and targeted supply chain. You also generally have a more robust supply chain, more competition, and increased access to new markets.

Implementing targeted procurement programs in Canada is something that we think is incredibly important. In the United States, action on targeted procurement programs started nearly 50 years ago. As a result, as Annette and I discovered, it's actually quite advanced. The U.S. government itself has a goal of procuring 5% from women-owned businesses, and over 95%—that's 95%—of Fortune 500 companies have their own targeted supplier programs.

Closer to home, we're very heartened by commitments in the 2018 federal budget, which highlighted how federal procurement can drive business growth. We look forward to hearing further details about this commitment, which seems somewhat similar to the U.S. women-owned small business program we've learned about. As the budget states, the government will “set an objective of increasing the participation of women-owned small and medium-sized enterprises...in federal procurement so that they constitute at least 15 per cent of SMEs supplying the Government of Canada.”

As the government moves toward implementation, we offer four considerations that we think will be vital to success. One is to set viable goals. The second is to collect and use data. Third is to reach out to women businesses. Fourth is to verify eligible companies. I'll just briefly articulate around all of those.

Around goals, we commend the government's commitment to 15%. By the same token, there is a big difference between awarding 15% of total nominal SME contracts and awarding 15% of the total available funds. We think the most effective way to effect change would be to create a set-aside reserve to award to women entrepreneurs based on a percentage of total available procurement funds.

The second area is about data collection. We certainly believe we need a strong baseline of current government procurement won by women-owned businesses, broken down, if possible, by industry sector and issuing department. This could be used to chart the progress of any initiatives going forward over time.

The third area is about reaching out to women-owned businesses. Another major portion of our report actually focused on the role of the private sector in expanding their own targeted supplier programs. Our suggestions to business, which include efforts such as attending conferences and summits, and working closely with networks, accelerators, and incubators, should also be applied to government. Basically, how do we get the word out so that women learn about these programs and actually engage?

The final area is to verify eligible companies. The government must provide clarity on the threshold for what qualifies as a women-owned enterprise. We suggest establishing, or actually endorsing, a program of third party certification to minimize abuse. There are a number of different organizations that already do this. Certification should focus on substantive management and control rather than necessarily ownership.

Beyond those specific measures, the committee should also consider the recommendations that were made by the growth council.

There were a couple of recommendations that focused on procurement. There are four basic approaches to strategic procurement that seem to be used in other countries, which might guide the formulation of a strategic procurement program here in Canada. One is solution-based procurement, which actually specifies the outcome you desire, rather than specifying specific equipment or services that are to be purchased. It's outcome-based.

The second type of procurement is called “supply push”. It opens the procurement process to unsolicited offers, exposing the government to innovative ideas and options that officials might not know exist. Basically, it encourages innovation and new approaches.

The third type is set-aside reserve, a share of government spending for certain types of suppliers, such as small business. This could include what we're talking about today, a pool of capital set aside specifically for women entrepreneurs or women-managed businesses.

The final type is demand-pull programs. This is where agencies intentionally create demand for new or nascent technologies.

Those are a few ideas around implementation. Annette and I certainly thank you for the opportunity to address the committee, and we welcome your questions.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Thank you very much for your testimony. We ran a little over time, but it was important testimony, so I was very pleased to hear all your comments and suggestions.

We'll start now with a round of questions.

Madame Mendès, you have seven minutes, please.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both witnesses for being with us. I really appreciate it. I think it's fascinating, the report, as is being able to hear you in person.

I'm very curious about the social and psychosocial barriers, particularly the issue about networking for women, the social implications of networking for women.

12:15 p.m.

O.C., Chair and Chief Executive Officer, NRStor Inc., Canada-United States Council for Advancement of Women Entrepreneurs and Business Leaders

Annette Verschuren

In term of networking, there is such a small number of women in business today that finding that ability to network is challenging. Studies have also been done indicating that men are getting more concerned about networking with women in meetings, in private meetings and breakfasts and so on. That is a big challenge that women face.

In terms of unconscious biases, they are everywhere. We see that in many situations. Studies show that, for instance, in venture capital, when people ask entrepreneurs venture capital questions, if they're in front of a panel, the questions they ask women are very different from the questions they ask men. The questions they ask men are very proactive and encouraging them to have a positive approach. The questions they ask women are more of a how-to and put them in more of a defensive and less confident position.

Those are some of the things that really need to be changed in our society, and the criticalness of gaining confidence through networking. One of the recommendations of our committee was to accelerate the number of women in accelerators and incubators across our country. Only a few organizations do that. For instance, at MaRS, 30% of the entrepreneurs are women. That is not the case across Canada. We're asking, in one of our recommendations, “Please collect the data. Follow that.” Once you report—it's amazing in business, and I expect in this type of environment—people will respond.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

Do you have something to add, Ms. Allan?