Evidence of meeting #128 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was indigenous.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
In that light, I would ask that the chair write the chair of the ethics committee and ask them to include it as a pillar in the study on Facebook they're doing right now.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Mr. McCauley, as is the practice of this committee, and particularly of this chair, I would need concurrence from the entire committee before I would write a letter on behalf of the committee.
To that end then, rather than getting into a protracted debate—
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
One comment, and then I'm going to ask for a show of hands again.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
When we discussed this before, the comment was that it was going to be studied by the ethics committee, so let's let it go, and it got voted down, but this specific issue is not getting studied as part of the ethics committee study, so I'll ask again that we refer it. We voted it down before, because it was going to be studied there. It's not on their list, so I would ask the government side to agree to at least send it to them to ask them to study it.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
You're asking the chair then, on behalf of the committee, to write a letter to the ethics committee.
All in favour of that request?
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
It can go to the ethics committee. Draft a letter, and we'll have a look.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Okay, I will compose a letter, and we'll bring it back to this committee before we send it. How's that?
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
That was the intent when we voted last time.
Thank you again.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Sorry for the interruption, Mr. Friday.
Mr. Blaikie, you have seven minutes.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.
We've covered a lot of ground already.
I just thought it might be worth asking for a little bit more of a breakdown of what exactly the internal services line means. It's about 25% of the budget, and you noted here that, for the sake of efficiency, a lot of things get run through internal services. I'm just wondering about the nature of those expenditures. Are any of the staff years under internal services?
Éric Trottier Chief Financial Officer, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
In internal services, we have approximately seven staff. That covers finance, paying invoices, some communications, audit evaluations that we need to do in terms of reporting, so policy as well as policy work. Those are the staff who basically support the program.
In terms of what is included in expenditures, what we centralize is mostly telephone lines, for example. It may look silly, but it's a big amount in terms of all our expenses. Other departments pay that from their own program. We centralize just for efficiencies.
Everything in terms of IM/IT is for the whole organization. That goes into that for all our licences, any new equipment we need, anything in terms of audit evaluations that we need to do, communications lines as well, everything in finance, and all the external reporting and printing, so it's mostly administrative items, but that's the majority of our internal services.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
When you talk about upgrading your case management program, are those expenditures that would fall into your internal services line, and not a program expenditure?
Chief Financial Officer, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
Yes.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Okay, and of the disclosure and reprisal management portion, how much of that is the other, I guess, 23 staff who work there? Are there other types of program costs or is it really just staffing costs?
Chief Financial Officer, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
The majority is staffing costs. That's the majority of our costs. It's very straightforward. We only have one program.
Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
As a micro-organization we have not, until now, had our own IM/IT services. One of our new employees is actually going to be our very own IM/IT person. We buy our human resources and compensation services from other organizations. It wouldn't be cost-effective for us to have our own HR group, for example, so we buy those services and use them as needed.
Conservative
Liberal
Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you all for being here.
Just for the record, I think the committee knows, but I'll put it back in that Minister Brison will be coming to meet with us, to discuss our legislation. So we have that to look forward to.
I wasn't here during the previous study, so I have one question to ask of you. What is the difference between internal and external regimes? Don't you deal specifically or mostly with public servants?
Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
Yes, we deal almost exclusively with public servants, but the regime is based on a very important concept in the whistle-blowing world, and that is the choice of where you go. A public servant can choose to make a disclosure internally, to their manager or to a senior officer who has to be appointed within the organization, or they can choose to come directly to us. The previous regime required, and some regimes in other jurisdictions still require, that you exhaust internal options before going external.
One of the progressive and really forward-thinking components of the current regime is that you can come to me without going internally. That does make, I think, great sense because you may not trust the internal system.
Liberal
Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC
Okay. That makes it very clear for me. Thank you very much. I just couldn't quite get it.
Mr. Blaikie was mentioning the IT portion of the budget and the telephone portion of the budget. I saw that you are moving, physically moving.
Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
Yes, physically moving.
Liberal
Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC
Okay, and then if I understand correctly, it's all about the new staff who are going to be part of the team and the need for more space.