In the time I have left, I would like to come back to the question we left from my last intervention about how you address mistakes within an organization. You don't want to be so hard on everybody all the time that nobody feels they can make a mistake. That leads to a kind of perverse culture. On the other hand, if there aren't any consequences for anybody, particularly with respect to very large mistakes that have important consequences both for government, in terms of cost and everything else, but also for staff morale and on the lives of individual staff who are being seriously affected at a personal level, then that's probably also not good for an organizational culture.
I'd like to hear first from you, Ms. Lemay, and then I wouldn't mind hearing from Mr. Ferguson as well, on the same points.
Try to give a brief answer so that we have time for both.