Again, our reach does not extend into conversations that happen in ministers' offices. Once we get into that world of cabinet confidence, we can't get there, but I think what I can say very clearly is that our audit indicated that the senior executives of the Phoenix project were controlling all of the information and the flow of information that went up. We saw that they did not fully brief the deputy minister, so I think, by extension, you can surmise that information could not then have flown further from the deputy minister. Again, we have no way of knowing what actually happened in ministers' offices.
