Government Operations Committee on Nov. 1st, 2018

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Colleagues, we're about a minute early, but I think we'll get going. I know we have a lot of ground to cover, and any time we have a minister in our presence, it's a good day.

Colleagues, just so you're all aware, this meeting will be televised.

I'd like to thank Minister Brison and his officials for being here. Minister Brison, we haven't seen you in a while—you never phone; you never write. I thought for a moment you just didn't like us, but we're glad to have you here.

[Scott Brison, President of the Treasury Board and Minister of Digital Government]

You know how fond I am of this committee and its members.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

I do know how fond you are, sir.

With that, you certainly know the drill. I'll ask you, perhaps, to introduce the officials who are with you and then commence with your opening statement.

[Scott Brison]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm delighted to be here with you at the committee again.

With me today are Brian Pagan, the assistant secretary of the expenditure management sector, and Karen Cahill, the chief financial officer. I would also like to introduce Glenn Purves, who has joined Treasury Board from Finance. Glenn will actually be replacing Brian.

Brian has announced that he will be retiring, after 33 years of serving the people of Canada exceptionally well, in six departments. Twelve of those years were in Treasury Board. He has done exceptional work on behalf of Canadians. I know he's worked closely with committee members, and he has played a leadership role in reforming the budget and estimates process in a way that I believe will live on as a legacy of his commitment to making a positive difference in the lives of Canadians.

Thank you, Brian, for all your great work.

[Brian Pagan, Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Thank you.

[Scott Brison]

You see, on this side, we really appreciate the public service and the work you do.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Scott Brison]

Mr. Chair and committee members, we have exceptional public servants serving the people of Canada on an ongoing basis, and Brian Pagan is one of the finest with whom I've worked, in two different ministries. I want to thank you, Brian, for the work. Come back any time.

Welcome, Glenn.

Supplementary Estimates present information to Parliament on spending that was either not developed in time for inclusion in the Main Estimates, or that has been refined to account for further development of particular programs and services.

As you will recall, the first Supplementary Estimates were typically presented in the spring.

However, thanks to recent changes to the sequencing of the main estimates and the budget for the duration of Parliament, the spring supplementary estimates were not necessary for 2018 and 2019. By having the main estimates actually follow the budget, parliamentarians can now understand more clearly how they relate to the big picture set out in the budget forecast.

Moreover, parliamentarians now have online access to more detailed and more accurate information. Thus, they're better able to hold government to account on how it spends tax dollars. We did this because of our belief in Canadians' right to know where public funds are being spent and invested.

That said, Supplementary Estimates are necessary to present the government's incremental spending requirements to Parliament.

To that end, we are seeking Parliament's approval of funding to invest in a number of important infrastructure projects, and to settle claims and deliver socio-economic programs for indigenous people.

I'd like to highlight a few of the major items: $827.3 million to provide three icebreakers for the Canadian Coast Guard; $666 million for compensation to first nations for specific claim settlements; $438.5 million for infrastructure projects in indigenous communities; $423.1 million for on-reserve water and waste-water infrastructure, operations, and capacity-building.

As of last week, Mr. Chair, in terms of results, 74 long-term drinking water advisories have been eliminated. We're on track to lift all of these by 2021 in indigenous communities across Canada.

Other items include $323.3 million to address a wide range of health, social and educational needs, according to Jordan's principle; $291.8 million for the new Champlain Bridge corridor project; $283.6 million for the Gordie Howe international bridge, the Detroit-Windsor crossing; $282.2 million for defence investments, such as acquiring military equipment and upgrading key facilities; $239 million to settle the Treaty No. 8 agricultural benefits specific claim with the Little Red River Cree Nation; and $210 million to allow Infrastructure Canada to deliver on the remaining funding agreements that had been undertaken with the former P3 Canada Fund.

I'd also like to draw your attention to the portion of the Supplementary Estimates for my department, although a very small part of these funds is for the Treasury Board Secretariat, or TBS, itself. Nearly all the funding requested is for two central votes.

Under the vote for compensation adjustments, we are seeking Parliament's authority for $541.4 million related to agreements concluded between August 2017 and August 2018. These funds are mainly for wage adjustments related to the border services, law and executive groups. After Parliament approves the appropriation act, funds will be distributed to the home departments of these agencies.

Under the vote for government-wide initiatives, we're also seeking $128 million for the LGBT Purge class action settlement, and $119 million for the indigenous early learning and child care framework. National Defence and Employment and Social Development, respectively, are responsible for leading these initiatives. They're working with partner departments and non-government organizations to determine the allocation of funding to departments and projects.

Distribution of funding to departments will begin after Parliament has approved the appropriation and these parameters are finalized.

I will take a moment to speak on estimates reform.

Mr. Chair, as you know, our government committed to improving parliamentary oversight of government spending around four pillars, and we have taken action in each area. I am very proud of the work we've done.

First, we've changed the sequencing so that the main estimates are tabled after the budget.

Second, we reconciled the accrual-based budget forecast with the cash-based estimates.

Third, we are piloting a vote structure that shows parliamentarians the purpose of funding provided for grants and contributions.

Fourth, our policy on results lets Canadians know how their tax dollars are spent, what results are achieved, and how they're being achieved.

I appreciate the committee's engagement in the study of the estimates, and I'm always happy to consider what we can do to better support this. For example, when I came to this committee in May to talk about the main estimates, I indicated that in respect of the allocations to departments and remaining balances for the line-by-line budget measures in the budget implementation act, Treasury Board vote 40, we would update the Excel table on a monthly basis and the text reporting in the next available estimates.

Mr. McCauley, at that time, requested that we update the text reporting on a monthly basis, as we do with the Excel table. I'm happy to say that we started doing this in August, as a result of Mr. McCauley's good suggestion. We're actually listening to the committee, and we're actually doing this.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Is that Lawrence MacAulay?

[Scott Brison]

Well, Minister MacAulay is a great fellow, too.

With the changes we made so far, we are again raising the bar on openness and transparency. That was recently recognized in the Open Data Barometer survey, where we ranked number one globally in terms of how governments publish and use open data for accountability, innovation and social impact. It's also reflected in the Government of Canada becoming the lead government co-chair of the Open Government Partnership for 2018-19.

I've had about 21 and a half years as a member of Parliament, and of those, 16 were in opposition and as a member of committees. I respect greatly the work of parliamentarians of all parties and the work of committees. I also believe it's extremely important that members of Parliament from all parties have the opportunity to follow the money, to be able to track how tax dollars are spent. It's one of the most important roles of members of Parliament on behalf of Canadians. Therefore, I look forward to engaging with you and your committee members again today.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Mr. Brison, thank you very much for your remarks.

We'll start our seven-minute round of interventions with Madam Ratansi.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

Mr. Pagan, I think Mr. McCauley will miss batting with you on issues, but we appreciate the services that you have provided and we wish you the best.

Minister, I'm looking at the supplementary estimates. You're seeking parliamentary approval for $7.5 billion in voted spending. One of the things that interest me is the monies that are being given to the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development for their indigenous services of $438.5 million, and another for $423.1 million.

I have just returned from Iqaluit, where we were talking about respecting and reflecting the indigenous presence in Parliament. We have now had 11 parliamentarians of indigenous origin here. I know the cancellation of the Kelowna Accord pushed back a lot of the investments and infrastructure investments in the indigenous communities.

Could you explain to me how that additional money will help in the infrastructure projects? Safe drinking water is a critical issue there, and housing is an issue there. Would you be able to elaborate?

[Scott Brison]

We all have a vested interest in the success of indigenous peoples. This is the fastest-growing and youngest population in Canada. If we get this right, this is a huge opportunity for Canada. Having a young population and a fast-growing population can be a good thing. If we get this wrong, it is catastrophic for all of us in terms of the future, both economically and socially. Every one of us, indigenous and non-indigenous, has a vested interest in the future success of indigenous peoples and indigenous children.

That's why we're making these investments, such as the $423 million to lift long-term water advisories on public systems on reserves. Think about it, just having safe water. We're on track to lift all of these by 2021. In terms of critical infrastructure in housing, we're investing $287.4 million in capacity and also to address some very critical housing infrastructure needs. We're investing $322 million to help first nations children have access to the same publicly funded programs as other children, something as basic as that in terms of equality of opportunity, in terms of basic education. These are the kinds of investments that will really move the needle in terms of the future of indigenous peoples.

Minister Philpott has been doing a great job in terms of services. Also, if you look at the changes we've made in the machinery of government around indigenous people, it makes a great deal of sense in terms of the ability not just to invest the money, but to actually see the results.

The work that Carolyn Bennett is doing, in partnership with Minister Philpott, is extremely important. They're both doing tremendous work on behalf of all Canadians.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you.

Having been there, along with MPPs from across Canada, we were absolutely wonderstruck at the way the people were able to survive, at their resilience living there. I didn't even know that Frobisher Bay froze and you could take your Ski-Doo over there.

I am also concerned about climate, and the questions we get at our town hall are on indigenous affairs and climate change. Has the Minister of Environment and Climate Change come before and asked for additional funding in that $7.5 billion?

[Scott Brison]

You're quite right in identifying that many indigenous peoples are extremely concerned about climate change. Many of the communities of indigenous people are, in fact, coastal communities that will bear the brunt of climate change in the coming years.

We are making significant investments not just in terms of measures to reduce our carbon footprint as a government and as a country, addressing long-term climate change, but also in terms of a mitigation strategy and a resilience strategy to help communities become better prepared, including changes that will protect critical infrastructure and working with other levels of government.

In Nova Scotia, for instance, we've provided funding to the provincial government to make investments in some of the dike systems around the province, including in my riding, which is on the Bay of Fundy, where there are the highest tides in the world.

While we are investing to reduce our long-term emissions, we also recognize the need to invest in climate change resilience. Fortifying and strengthening coastal communities is part of that, and that has a significant impact on indigenous communities in a lot of cases as well.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I have only 30 seconds, so I can't ask you another question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

You will have ample opportunities following this, though.

Mr. McCauley, you are up for seven minutes, please.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thank you.

Minister, welcome back.

Mr. Pagan, best of luck.

Mr. Purves, good luck looking as young as Mr. Pagan after 12 years at Treasury Board.

Minister, as always, I'm shocked at the size of your entourage. We bug you about how we can find the money, the $7-billion slush fund from vote 40. I think it's spent on your entourage.

[An hon. member]

Oh!

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Oh, calm down, Ms. Mendès.

Now, Minister, getting to the estimates themselves, there is $53.5 million in allotment from TB vote 5 for the three icebreakers, on top of the $855 million in Fisheries itself. Could you speak to your role in the national shipbuilding strategy?

[Scott Brison]

Treasury Board actually plays a role in cabinet committees on an ongoing basis in terms of challenge function. That's one of the reasons the President of the Treasury Board is a member of all cabinet committees, as is the Minister of Finance—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

So you're part of the cabinet committee that discusses defence procurement on major projects.

[Scott Brison]

Treasury Board is involved in all major expenditures. Ultimately, on defence procurement, you actually have PSPC, Public Services and Procurement Canada, which leads the charge with National Defence. ISED is also involved.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

However, the Treasury Board president sits on the committee. Is that right?

[Scott Brison]

The Treasury Board president does sit on the Treasury Board cabinet committee. He, in fact, chairs it.

However, just on this, it's important—