Government Operations Committee on Nov. 1st, 2018

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It's unfortunate. You committed to appear at this committee about a whistle-blower study, which is very important. We have the worst whistle-blower protection for public servants in the OECD, and you've refused to come back.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Mr. Peterson, do you have a point of order?

[Kyle Peterson, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. I certainly agree with your initial ruling that you were being very deferential to the relevant, but I really don't see how rehashing the whistle-blower study, which we've already done, is relevant at all to this.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I can address it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

I think there is relevance there. The question has been asked.

Mr. McCauley has about 24 seconds left.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

The Integrity Commissioner receives supplementaries, and thus it is relevant.

There are negotiations—it's been reported—going on with the public service unions about a payoff for inconveniences and other issues with Phoenix. How far along are we? When will we actually get an announcement for that? Can you give us a ballpark estimate of what the hit will be for the treasury?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Minister Brison, please give us a very short answer, if it's possible, sir.

[Scott Brison]

We're working with the public service. First of all, stabilizing the Phoenix pay system is being led by Minister Qualtrough. It's a tough job. We inherited from the previous government a pay system that was badly designed and poorly scoped out. We are working to fix that, but we're also leading the development, at Treasury Board, of the next-generation pay system. We're using an agile, digital procurement approach that is actually going to see working prototypes being tested by public servants in the coming months—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

[Scott Brison]

—and we're making a great deal of progress on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

I'm afraid we're running out of time, so we're going to have to go to Mr. Jowhari.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to welcome the minister and the department here. Actually, I'm going to follow up on what Mr. McCauley was asking the minister, who didn't get a chance to complete his response.

Really, about $18.1 million in funding is allocated as part of the back-office transformation initiative, which is aimed to replace a number of different human resources management systems and financial management systems. Can you shed some light on where this money is being spent, as well as finish the statement that you were making regarding the pilot project that's going on for the pay system?

[Scott Brison]

On the back-office transformation initiative, since fiscal year 2014-15 a total of $130 million has been invested in it. In fiscal 2018-19, we'll complete the build of the Government of Canada finance and materials management solution, and we will develop a cloud-based infrastructure with a secure connection to the GC network.

Just on that, because I know you have a background in and an understanding of digital transformation, several months ago we undertook a “cloud first” strategy as a government. We're seeing significant take-up now by departments and agencies, which is helping us become more agile in our development of digital solutions to serve people better. That has been helpful in the back-office transformation as well. So the work is ongoing, and we've made some significant progress.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay, thank you.

Minister, Madam Mendès talked about the economic benefit of the new Champlain Bridge. I would be remiss, being from Ontario, if I didn't touch on the Gordie Howe bridge, and how the investment of $283 million is going to add to the economy of Ontario and all of Canada, especially with the hope that the USMCA will be ratified in the near future.

[Scott Brison]

The Gordie Howe bridge is important, of course, to the people of Windsor and Ontario, but it's also important to the whole country. If you look at the percentage of Canada-U.S. trade at the Detroit-Windsor crossing, it's staggering. We believe it's in our national interest to see the construction of the Gordie Howe international bridge. Of course, there are funds in these estimates that will continue that process. This is a very significant project involving a lot of stakeholders and a lot of challenges, but we believe it's incredibly important that we get this done.

You mentioned particularly the USMCA, the trade relationship with our biggest trade partner, and the jobs that depend on that. The logistics of being able to serve that market are essential to the broader Canadian economy. We're pleased with the progress, but there's still a lot of work. There are a lot of moving parts with this project. It's a very complex infrastructure project, but we are committed to moving it forward.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Is there any way that you can give me some of the major breakdowns of that $283 million for the Gordie Howe bridge and some of the economic benefits? When you were talking about the Champlain Bridge, you were quite clear in terms of saying how many cars would be moving through. Are there some indicators that you could share with us or that you could get back to the committee with?

[Scott Brison]

We could get back to you on that.

With the reliance on the current structure and not having an alternative, I think it makes a great deal of sense to ensure that we have the ability or that we guarantee the ability of Canadian exporters to get their goods to the United States. Take the auto sector; you can see the importance of the Detroit-Windsor crossing in terms of the auto sector and the supply chains, which are inherently shared between Canada and the U.S., Detroit and Windsor.

For all of these reasons, making sure we have a secure link for trade, commerce and people between Detroit and Windsor is in the interest of all Canadians.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you.

Minister, I know you were scheduled here for an hour only. It's been the practice of this committee, where possible, to try to get a complete round in, which means there would be one three-minute round left for your colleague Mr. MacGregor. Would you be willing to stay at the committee to provide answers to questions for an additional three minutes?

[Scott Brison]

I think I can do three minutes....

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Can you manage that? Thank you so much.

Mr. MacGregor, the floor is yours.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for indulging me.

Neither the main estimates nor the supplementary estimates includes the $4.5-billion purchase of the Trans Mountain pipeline. Your government took a loan, through the Canada Development Investment Corporation, from Export Development Canada to create a new Crown corporation, Trans Mountain Corporation.

We've heard all this talk of parliamentary oversight. Why would you make such a large purchase and not use the estimates process to get this money approved? If you have so much money floating around from Crown corporations, why on earth is your government spending it on a diluted bitumen-exporting pipeline and not addressing the needs of the housing crisis or climate change adaptation and mitigation?

[Scott Brison]

Mr. MacGregor, diversifying our markets for our energy is critically important to—

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

It all goes to the United States currently, so you can't use that argument.

[Scott Brison]

Diversifying our energy exports is critically important: 97% of our energy goes to the United States right now—