Government Operations Committee on Nov. 8th, 2018

[Matthew Shea]

—so we needed more funding for that, and if I could just finish on one point, I'd point out the fact that we've completed 950 appointments under this. I do want to make it clear that a lot of progress has been made on this file.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

That's great. We want to see progress, but again, when the plan came out, it showed that there was going to be a decrease in funding, year over year, in the GIC process. Then all of a sudden the money is back in. Were we just not ready to have this money continue, to have the money and planning process approved? Can I have my answer?

I want to go back very quickly. I know it's not you, but we asked this before. With respect to the mandate tracking website, who is responsible for reciting exactly what's there? I'm going to bring up two exact examples.

One is balancing the budget by 2019-20: “Underway—with challenges”. It's not under way with challenges, and it's not your fault. It's not going to get done.

The other one is paying public servants on time: “Underway—with challenges”. It's not under way with challenges. It's not halfway, period, and it will not happen within the mandate time.

Is it a political person who says, “Let's mislead Canadians”? Who's deciding that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

You might have an opportunity to answer that question in the next round, but we're going to Monsieur Drouin for five minutes now.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate my colleague's comments. But I have to say that a number of public servants are paid on time. I do not feel that it is fair to say that most public servants are not paid on time. So I believe that the website is correct.

I have one other comment. I also believe that it is necessary to mention that the commissioner of leaders' debates plays an important role. I am aware of the comments of some of my colleagues. However, as a francophone living in a minority situation, I want to remind the committee that, in 2015, there was a whole social media campaign with the hashtag #Nouscomptons, because Radio-Canada asked not one single question about francophone communities outside Quebec. I feel that it is important for the new commissioner to ensure that questions will be asked on francophone communities in minority situations.

Let me now move to the issue of public appointments. I see that, under the Privy Council Office in vote 1a of the supplementary estimates, that you are asking for $3,882,746 to manage and oversee Governor in Council appointments. The last time I looked at this issue, the website was not yet up and running, but it is now. I see that it is a lot more transparent: positions are now posted on the website and Canadians can get information on them. Currently, are all the positions posted on the website?

[Matthew Shea]

I apologize. I'll have to confirm to the committee whether all positions are there. I do know that every effort is made to post positions in an open and transparent way. That is the whole goal of the process.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

What will the close to $4 million be used for?

[Matthew Shea]

That's used for salaries, largely.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay.

[Matthew Shea]

Going back to the previous question, when the work was originally resourced in budget 2016, an estimate was made as to what it would cost. The reality is there has been a much higher cost simply because the work is expansive. There's a lot of work that goes into all of these processes that PCO supports, and the progress being made has that cost. We've tried to cash-manage that amount, along with some other pressures; and the reality is that similar to some other departments, we're at a point that we can't cash-manage that by reallocation.

I think some of the recent collective agreement amounts that we have to absorb.... There are a number of different factors that I'm sure many of my colleagues from other departments understand.

As a result, we put in a funding request. That goes back to the timing question that Mr. McCauley asked about. We did not have that in time for the main estimates. We put that funding request in over the summer, got approval and did the Treasury Board submissions, and that's why it's only now coming through supplementary estimates (A). There is an ongoing portion of this that will be included in the main estimates for next year for not just that, but for the ministers' offices and other pieces as well.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Again with regard to the Governor in Council appointments, since the website has been up, with positions on the website, have we been tracking whether more people are applying? Do we know what the numbers are compared with those of 2015 and 2016?

[Matthew Shea]

I don't have the historical comparison, but I can tell you that since we launched this, since February 2016, we've had 27,000 applications come through. I think that's indicative of the fact that we're having greater reach by doing it in this open and transparent manner.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Those would exclude the Senate appointments.

[Matthew Shea]

Correct.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

That's just for positions on boards and whatnot.

[Matthew Shea]

Yes, it's for leadership positions.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

With regard to the physical security of systems and buildings, you have an amount of close to $500,000. Essentially, what's that for? Is that for PCO buildings?

[Matthew Shea]

It's for PCO buildings.

In budget 2016 we were approved a large amount of money to deal with some physical and IT issues. As you can appreciate, with events over the past few years, not just in Canada but elsewhere, physical security is of great importance to our department. Part of this was upgrading various aspects of our security.

As with any project, there are delays at times. This has been the only reprofile we've sought. This is simply money that we couldn't spend last year, that we're spending this year to finish some of the work we're doing around access control to our building.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Great. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Blaikie, if you're within earshot, you have our final intervention of three minutes, please.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I thought we had another round of Conservative questions.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Oh, I do.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Kelly was on such a roll, I didn't want to pre-empt anything.

I know I have only three minutes, but I want to come back briefly to the question of the Treasury Board submission for the debates commission.

I've become a bit of a student of the Treasury Board submission process. I'm curious to know something. If we don't know—because it's up to the future commissioner, who hasn't yet been appointed, and the nominee doesn't have any role in determining the content of the submission—how many staff there are going to be, if we don't know where they're located, if we don't know whether there will be internal hires or secondments or whether the work is going to be contracted out, if we don't know how much travel is going to be represented within that budget, then without revealing any of the specific content of the submission—because I realize you can't—what could possibly be in the Treasury Board submission?

My understanding of a Treasury Board submission is that it's a spending plan. How are you costing things if you have no idea what the money is for? Isn't that the point of the Treasury Board submission? That's the moment when you say, “This is actually our detailed spending plan for the money.” How do you have a Treasury Board submission, prepared and submitted to Treasury Board, without having any concept of any of those things that I just mentioned?

[Matthew Shea]

I think there is a concept of generally....

Again, there are clear deliverables. It's important to keep in mind that while we don't necessarily know the exact configuration of it, there is a set of clear deliverables that Minister Gould committed to.

Really, it's about ensuring that there are two debates, one in each official language, with a view to reaching the largest number of Canadians possible.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Aren't the high-level objectives more what you would expect to see in a cabinet submission? The Treasury Board submission would present our costing—the FTEs we think it's going to take, our cost for equipment and office space, our cost for travel.

If you don't have those details, why would you be submitting to Treasury Board at this point, and what would you be submitting to Treasury Board?

[Matthew Shea]

It would be a high-level spending plan with a best estimate of the breakdown.

Again, we know the total amount. We know the amount by fiscal year. There is only so much money, and it's all—