Government Operations Committee on Dec. 6th, 2018

[Carla Qualtrough]

I apologize; I can't explain that—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Not at this time, because I have other questions.... Maybe you can get back to us in the second round.

Minister, Matthew Matchett, who was alleged to be behind the supply ship leak, was hired after the alleged leak to work for PSPC. Can you speak to any details that you have on his departmental transfer to PSPC, and whether he is still working there, because he seems to be disappearing from GEDS?

You can answer just briefly.

[Carla Qualtrough]

Thank you.

[Les Linklater]

I can speak to the issue. Mr. Matchett is in fact an employee of PSPC, and he has been suspended.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay. Was he removed from GEDS on purpose, then, for that reason?

[Les Linklater]

I would have to get back to you with more detail on that, but he has been suspended.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

When was he suspended?

[Les Linklater]

Why was he suspended? I'm not at liberty to get into personnel management issues.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I asked when.

[Les Linklater]

I don't have the exact date, but we can provide that to the clerk.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Yes, if you don't mind....

Dave Perry, vice-president of the Canadian Global Affairs Institute, said in a 2018 report, “If Prime Minister Trudeau wants to see his defence policy implemented as outlined, he needs to change Canada's defence procurement system to enable it to spend procurement money at the rate projected in SSE.” At that time, he also provided in his report very clear information that there's no possible way to actually achieve SSE with the current spending.

Do you agree with Mr. Perry's statement that we need to change our defence procurement system?

[Carla Qualtrough]

I agree that we need to make our entire procurement system more efficient and less clunky, for sure. I think we've taken some really important steps towards that.

I'm going to ask André to explain the risk-based authorities. It's a very important distinction. I think you'll be pleased with it.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

You have 30 seconds at the most, please.

[André Fillion]

Yes, SSE, “Strong, Secure, Engaged”, is a challenge for all departments involved. We are working on some improvements to streamline defence procurement. One of the significant initiatives we have undertaken is to move, for example, authorities for ministers and departments to award certain contracts—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Have you seen Mr. Perry's report showing the massive gap between “Strong, Secure, Engaged” and what the estimates and the budget are showing, that the two of them don't align? Do you agree with that?

[André Fillion]

We're aware of that, and—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

What's your feeling? Are you saying Mr. Perry is incorrect, or is he correct?

[André Fillion]

No, he is presenting facts as they are, and—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks. That's just what I wanted to know. With SSE, we are challenged with this low procurement, and it does not reflect the reality of our ability to purchase items. That's what I wanted to get at.

Do you believe that we need an overhaul of our procurement system, Minister?

[Carla Qualtrough]

As I said, part of my mandate letter is in fact to modernize our procurement, and that would, in large part, include defence procurement, because it is absolutely clunky and at times prohibits getting the equipment we need quickly.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I think we all agree.

Now, Minister, do you support this committee in undertaking a comprehensive study on the state of the more critical aspects of the federal defence procurement process—not specific projects as such, but the process—to review the problems facing industry and government, and how we can resolve them?

[Carla Qualtrough]

I would definitely encourage your committee to prioritize your business as you see fit, and if that is what you deem to be a priority, I would support it.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay.

PSPC has.... You've commented that there is funding in the estimates to develop simpler and better procurement. There are funds for allocations in the Treasury Board central votes, in the supplementary estimates (A) under this. It's been almost four years since this government has taken over, and it's clear that the issues of our defence procurement system are deeply embedded and will not be fixed with band-aid solutions or simple adjustments.

As such, given the matter at hand, and given that I don't want to take up too much of the committee's time, I'm going to move a motion, please:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee conduct a full-scale study on the state of the more critical aspects of federal defence procurement to review the problems facing our procurement process and how to resolve them, as well as study options to streamline our processes for industry and the public service, that the Committee hold no fewer than ten meetings, that the study begin no later than Monday, February 4, 2019, and that the Committee report its findings to the House.

Now, I will state for the record that I'd like to go immediately to a vote. If the government decides to adjourn on this motion, then we will believe it's a simple refusal of the government to accept the study and to move forward on this issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

We're open for debate. Now I'm looking for speakers on the speakers list.

Mr. McCauley, you have the floor.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm fine.