Evidence of meeting #163 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pay.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Jean Yip Scarborough—Agincourt, Lib.
Thank you to all of you for coming.
I'll go back to Phoenix.
Minister, are there further steps you plan to take in the coming months to increase the speed with which transactions are processed?
4:40 p.m.
Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Accessibility
Thanks for the question.
We are at the point where every department and agency served by the pay centre will be in a pod in May. We are constantly looking for innovative ways to address any kind of systemic barriers to dealing with this more quickly.
Les, can you tell us a bit more about what's coming up?
4:40 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Human Resources-to-Pay Stabilization, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Certainly. Over the summer, we posted a request for information under six streams to allow private sector vendors to bring forward innovative ideas on a number of fronts, such as additional automation at the pay centre, better user experience for employees through the tools that have been developed, or human resource training and the approach to staff development around the system.
We are now in the process of soliciting feedback from those vendors under those six streams. We are in a position to be able to move forward very quickly with contract awards for a couple of bids in the next number of weeks on the automation front, which will allow more access to new ideas to help speed up some of the processes that may be manual now that have an opportunity to be automated.
4:40 p.m.
Scarborough—Agincourt, Lib.
Thank you.
This pay uncertainty may affect departments' ability to do their work. I can certainly empathize with the uncertainty and the anxiety. I'm wondering if you can comment on the retention of employees and recruitment of new employees.
4:40 p.m.
Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Accessibility
It's a concern of mine. It's a concern that there is a legitimate perception out there that there's uncertainty as to whether, if you come to work for the Government of Canada, you'll get paid properly or not. We are taking a whole bunch of steps to address that perception, but in the meantime there is that uncertainty.
We are trying to inform people as best as possible of the immediate steps—and I'll refer again to emergency pay that can be taken if they are faced with a pay issue—but I will not in any way underplay the uncertainty and anxiety that people are facing because of this.
4:45 p.m.
Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Accessibility
Les, would you mind giving us the technical side?
4:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Human Resources-to-Pay Stabilization, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Essentially, departments and agencies have the authority, when regular payroll doesn't run, to issue from their financial group what we call an emergency salary advance or a priority payment. When Phoenix went live, of course we had hundreds, if not thousands, of occurrences each pay period where people were not getting the appropriate pay or were getting no pay at all. We worked with departments and agencies to ensure there was a more streamlined process and access for individuals to reach their managers and deputies, as required, to receive these emergency salary advances and priority payments.
Over time, as we've improved the functionality and stability of the system, we're now in a position whereby, if we know when we run the pay that the confirm hasn't worked for an individual and they will get no pay or low pay, we can prepare a report in advance and share that with the department or agency. This enables them to proactively reach out to the employee to ask if they would like an emergency salary advance or an additional priority payment to be able to tide them over until we can correct the pay in the next pay run.
The gaps of no pay or low pay are occurring very seldom compared to when we first went live, because of the advances and improvements through the collaboration with departments.
4:45 p.m.
Scarborough—Agincourt, Lib.
In looking towards transitioning from the Phoenix system to the new system, will the new pay pods continue to provide assistance? How will you bridge that?
4:45 p.m.
Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Accessibility
Our role in this whole thing is twofold. It's to stabilize Phoenix and make sure employees are paid accurately and on time, but it's also to ensure that the data we will pass on to the next system is clean. It is way too premature to speculate what the new system will look like. I can assure you that we will learn from every lesson and hard-fought victory on this file as we proceed to that new system, including keeping Phoenix live until we have absolute certainty.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you very much.
Our final intervention will come from Mr. Blaikie, for three minutes.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, you've talked about the role of the registrar of ineligibility and suspension, and indicated that the registrar will be making independent decisions about whether or not to suspend companies from bidding on federal contracts. In fact, you likened that to the role of the director of public prosecutions, who also makes independent decisions.
However, we know that in that case there is the ability of the Attorney General to override decisions made by the director of public prosecutions. I'm wondering whether, in the final version of the integrity regime, there will be any kind of ministerial prerogative or government ability to override decisions taken by the registrar.
4:45 p.m.
Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Accessibility
I can confidently say no.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Okay, so those are going to be completely independent decisions, but there isn't going to be anything in the integrity regime that gives any signal in terms of the severity of offences. That means we're going to have somebody making completely independent decisions, with no ability for government to review those decisions, but also giving no direction in advance as to what the government would consider to be on the more strict or extreme range of offences versus smaller offences.
4:45 p.m.
Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Accessibility
I will definitely take that feedback under advisement. What I would say is that the severity of the offence is a factor the registrar will take into consideration, but I—
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
But there is no guideline for what counts as a severe offence. For instance, judges make decisions in criminal trials about the severity of an offence, but they do get direction through the Criminal Code. Petty theft and homicide are not treated the same in the code. It's the judge's independent decision about what's happened and the severity of that within a category of offences, but there is direction given in the Criminal Code as to what's considered a very serious offence and what's considered a relatively minor offence.
What you are contemplating is giving no such direction, and absolute independence to the registrar. That's what I've heard today.
Am I wrong about that, and if so, how?
4:45 p.m.
Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Accessibility
I understand the analogy you are making. That is why we're putting in “up to” 10 years; and the types of things that the registrar will be obligated to take into consideration, including the severity of the offence, will include prior offences, mitigating circumstances and....
Give me some more examples, guys.
4:50 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Those factors are documented, indeed, in the documents that are out there—things like the role of the supplier or contractor in the offence itself, and whether it is a primary or secondary player.
4:50 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Sure, but that's within a category of offences. There won't be any discrimination between classes of offences themselves, and whether some are considered more severe or less severe.
4:50 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Severity is in there, as well as the financial gains realized, their ability for voluntary disclosure and prior behaviour. That's a bucket of factors, but severity of offence is absolutely a factor.
4:50 p.m.
NDP
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Sorry, Mr. Blaikie. We're completely out of time.
Minister, I want to sincerely thank you for extending your time with us here today. I know you were only scheduled to be here with us until 3:30 p.m. You've extended that considerably. I know your staff is anxiously waiting to get you out the door to your next appointment, but I do thank you for being here.
4:50 p.m.
Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Accessibility
Thank you for your time, as well.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
You're very welcome.
Colleagues, we will suspend for about five minutes, while the minister clears the room, and then we'll continue with the officials left at the table.