Evidence of meeting #165 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was irving.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Perfect. That's good. There's our priority.
You also mentioned, which I found interesting, that energy efficiency and a reduction in carbon are not the same thing.
3:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Green Building Council
That's right.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Can you elaborate on that? That sounds interesting to me. I know you had to skip on because you were trying to get through your slides, but perhaps you could elaborate on that a little bit.
3:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Green Building Council
Sure. It very much depends on what type of energy you're using. If you have buildings that are identical in terms of energy efficiency, then let's say one of the buildings is perhaps 30% to 40% more efficient than a conventional building. One uses clean hydro power and the other one uses heating based on fossil fuels, natural gas, or electricity from coal-fired power plants. The building that uses electricity from coal-fired power plants, even though the buildings have equal levels of energy efficiency, increases carbon emissions by 30%. It produces 30 times as much carbon than the other building using a clean energy source. Energy efficiency is not the only measure to assess the carbon performance of a building.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Okay.
I want to look at the relationship between a new build and a retrofit. As I understand it, a retrofit would be a better way to reduce the carbon, whereas a new build would inevitably add to the carbon because of the new build process. Is that correct? Do I have that right?
3:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Green Building Council
Generally speaking, you're correct. Any new building, no matter in the short term.... If we think about 2030 leading up to 2050, any new building will contribute some form of carbon during construction or with the materials; there will be some contribution. But it creates the building stock of the future, so if you build more zero carbon buildings, by 2050 you'll have way more buildings that emit less carbon. In terms of the net gains right now, between now and 2030 and 2050, most of the net gains have to come from existing buildings. Cutting existing emissions—that's the key strategy.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
If we're going after the existing buildings, is there an efficient manner to get these retrofits onto those existing buildings?
3:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Green Building Council
Yes, I would think so. Yes, I think retrofits overall are paying back. What we model through our reports, which we'd be happy to share with you, is that we're looking at 20% to 40% reductions, not 100%. What's really important here is that this can be done through recommissioning when it comes to your building systems. It can be done through deep retrofitting where you're replacing your equipment, your lighting, and those types of things. If you want to go further, you can bring in renewable energy or do a fuel switch from a fossil fuel to a clean source of energy. This is quite doable.
What's really important here is that the 20% to 40% reduction is important, but scale is also important. We have 250,000 existing buildings in Canada and about 12 million to 13 million homes. There's a real opportunity here to accelerate the retrofit of those, and an opportunity for the government—I don't even know how many buildings you own, but it's in the thousands—to actually start looking at which ones are the most suitable for retrofit and can also provide you with a return on your investment so that you lower your operating costs by eliminating carbon.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you for that. I'm out of time, but I appreciate your elaboration.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you very much.
Mr. McCauley, you have seven minutes. Go ahead, please.
March 20th, 2019 / 4 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to move my motion from January 31, please. I could read it if you wish.
Do you have it, sir?
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Colleagues, I'm just going to suspend for a moment. A motion that Mr. McCauley has submitted is going to be passed out to you.
We'll suspend for just a couple of moments.
Does everyone have a copy of the motion in front of them?
4 p.m.
An hon. member
Yes.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
All right.
I have reviewed it with Paul, and the motion is order.
Mr. McCauley, please proceed.
4 p.m.
Liberal
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Well, Madam Mendès, as you know, any member can submit a motion, if it's in order, at any time to deal with the work of this committee. Obviously, the committee has been dealing with many, many issues over the last several months, one of them being procurement. Just because today we were dealing with the greening of government does not mean that Mr. McCauley is unable to submit a motion. He could do that at any time, and he's done so today.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
No, he's speaking to the motion right now. There's no vote; he's just speaking to it.
Mr. McCauley, the floor is yours.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Great.
To start, Mr. Chair, I intend to speak quite extensively on this. I'm not sure if you wish to excuse the witness.
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
All right.
Mr. Mueller, I apologize for this, because I know you're hooked up by video conference and you've taken time out of your busy schedule to be with us, and I do appreciate that, as I'm sure everybody around the table does. Mr. McCauley has the right to speak to a motion that he has introduced. It has nothing to do with the greening of government study and your area of expertise, but I don't want to keep you sitting for the next hour and a half or so listening to a subject that may be unrelated to your area of expertise.
Mr. McCauley, can you assure me you're speaking for at least a couple of hours?
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Mr. Mueller, you are welcome to sit and listen if you wish, but, sir, I would suggest that if you have better things to do with your day, you could perhaps make plans to do them now. You are excused, if you wish to be excused, sir, but I do thank you for your attendance here.
4 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Green Building Council
Thank you again for the invitation. I very much appreciated sharing our expertise. We would be happy, as I said, for the council to help the Government of Canada wherever it can to green its building portfolio. I appreciate the time. I will go back to my daily routine, which is work. Thank you for the invitation.
