Evidence of meeting #18 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was spending.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Mr. Minister, you have an opportunity to prove it by taking action.
Liberal
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Yes, and we will continue to do so. Did your Conservative colleague sign—
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
He did a very good job protecting our farmers when we formed the government, and he took concrete action on the pizza kits less than a year ago.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you, Mr. Blaney.
We're going to the last five minutes. Mr. Whalen, I understand you're sharing your time with Mrs. Shanahan.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Yes, Madam Chair.
If I still have time, I will share it with Mrs. Shanahan.
Mr. Brison, like Mr. Blaney, I'm very interested in correcting many of the mistakes that we inherited from the previous government. We've made over 300 promises. We've done many of them over the course of the first six months, but I know there are so many more errors that we need to correct, not only in official languages but in many areas.
At the same time, and with so many new programs, I do want to make sure that we don't make matters worse. I want to have an understanding on how we are going to have quantitative metrics associated with programs and products that we develop for constituents. The particular question that I want to know the answer to is whether these performance metrics are going to be developed by Treasury Board in some type of a strategic plan, or whether they are going to be developed independently by the parliamentary budget officer and reported that way. I don't mean to be too partisan about it, but I'm trying to create a stick to beat myself with. I want to know how we're going to have metrics to make sure the government can be held to account.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
I thank you very much because results-focused government is something that's really important, which we want to demonstrate to Canadians. They provided us with a mandate to implement a progressive and ambitious program, and we have to deliver it.
I think that in politics and in government we usually focus on policy assuming that the execution of the policy will go fine, when in fact that usually doesn't happen. We are trying to focus more on execution. There is a new agenda and results committee of cabinet, and a new unit within PCO led by Matthew Mendelsohn, focusing on that, as well as the Clerk himself and the team at PCO. This is a whole-of-government approach that we are working on with each department and agency.
Treasury Board is central to this. There's the flow of new investments through which we have an opportunity to play a role in terms of establishing metrics with the department and measuring results. It's also the stock that is huge, about $250 billion per year. As we work with departments and agencies over a period of time to evaluate that stock, we can really make government a lot more efficient and effective.
For governments at all levels—I believe in Canada, it's around 35% of GDP—simply operating government more efficiently and being more results focused can really make a big difference in terms of the productivity of the country, in terms of wealth and prosperity.
I commend to you a speech I gave this week to 700 executives in the public service at APEX. I commend to you any of my speeches. They're really good.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
But this one, I believe, we've put up. Even my deputy, who's really difficult with me sometimes, said it was pretty good.
I was just joking, but it did lay out broad strokes.
I want to come back to this committee to go through some of the reform within government. From a parliamentary committee perspective, I think it is really your wheelhouse in terms of effective operations of government. This is something that I really do want to come back to. I can give you a better overview on the 21st when I'm back on that.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Ms. Shanahan, you have one minute and fifteen seconds for questions and responses.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Thank you very much, Chair.
Minister, I also have the pleasure of sitting on the Standing Committee on Public Accounts. It has come to my attention that when we receive the volume of public accounts, it's difficult to tease out the program spending. I would just like to hear from you, especially with the cross-department initiatives that we have, on how we are going to tease out that program spending and what level of reporting we are going to see.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
We have a pilot program right now with Transport Canada. There are specific programs for which we are providing more granular information. It's a pilot, but it's something we intend on expanding, so that's something. Take a look at Transport Canada. We can direct you exactly to that, if you would like.
That was a good question.
Liberal
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Just hang on, Madam Chair. I think we're not quite done the rotation here.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Well, thank you.
On this theme of efficient operation of government, Treasury Board has put Transport Canada under special oversight. That had prompted me to ask you before about Regina's Global Transportation Hub which received millions in federal funding, and then bought land from businessmen linked to the governing Saskatchewan Party for more than double the publicly appraised value. The provincial government, to which I believe you have deferred, claimed that this purchase was based on a private appraisal, and the CBC filed an access to information request for that document.
Since we last discussed this matter, CBC has reported that the Global Transportation Hub is refusing to release the private appraisal because it “could be expected to harm the reputation and cause financial loss to the preparer of the appraisal”. At what point will the Treasury Board intervene to safeguard federal tax dollars?
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Well, my understanding is the provincial government has referred this to the provincial auditor general. Obviously, the provincial auditor general is looking at that, and I don't want to prejudge that.
We work in partnership with provincial governments, and provincial governments play an important role. The actual execution of a transaction of this nature is clearly in the purview of a provincial government. Again, the provincial government has referred to the auditor general, and we don't have a rapport with the auditor general at this point.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
The concern is the provincial government refusing to provide the information. I guess another fact would be that it charged CBC $180,000 for its access to information requests. I think by any standard that's just excessive.
At some point I wonder if the federal government would come to a determination that perhaps the province isn't being forthcoming with the information necessary to investigate this project, which does entail a lot of federal money.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
I find your question quite provincial in that it is more of.... Look, I appreciate your persistence with this issue, Mr. Weir, but again, right now, if there's a governance issue, it is a provincial governance issue. The provincial auditor general is looking at this.
I'm a federal member of Parliament, as are you. You're a citizen of that province. You should have a conversation with the provincial government.