Government Operations Committee on June 2nd, 2016

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

We would hope that we can have a deal that continues to be in the interests of the Canadian industry.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you, Minister.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

We can come back, but Minister Freeland's actually more closely engaged.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

You're running into the seven minutes of Mr. Weir.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Oh, sorry.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you, Minister Brison.

I just want to pick up on this discussion about the Australian model for consolidating the estimates with the budget. I think everyone agrees that it would be desirable to better align the main estimates with the budget, but it was very apparent in our discussion with Australian officials that they still have supplementary estimates. I'm just wanting you to confirm that in what you're suggesting, would you still envision having a series of supplementary estimates over the course of the year and the same sort of accountability process around them?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Yes, there will always be something. There will be unforeseen circumstances. There will be something that we need to address, something that does not make it into the mains. There will be. We would like to see them become smaller over time, but there will always be something.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Okay, thanks.

On the supplementary estimates we're considering today, there is a comparison of the forecast expenditures in the budget versus the main estimates, which no longer includes spending on employment insurance benefits. The parliamentary budget officer described this change in the presentation of the main estimates as one that did not increase transparency, so why did the Treasury Board exclude planned EI spending from the main estimates?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I'm going to ask to defer to Brian on this, but in my opening statement I addressed this point. I'm not sure whether you were here for that.

Brian, you may want to expand on that.

[Brian Pagan]

Thank you.

There were two points. First of all, in his report on supplementary estimates (A) on May 18, the PBO was quite complimentary or encouraged by the fact that we've included a reconciliation table that allows one to crosswalk between the accrual budget and the cash estimates. There are a number of reasons why there are differences, and this committee heard on Tuesday some of those differences with regard to Australia where they plan on accrual and they control in cash. That is one important difference.

Another is the spending universe. Quite simply, the processes, the budgets and the estimates, do serve two fundamentally different purposes. The budget is completely forward looking and encompasses all known or anticipated expenses of the government, whereas the estimates only include the cash required for departments to deliver their programs and services, and we heard that is similar to the Australian approach.

Because of that, there are certain elements where departments don't require cash. Employment insurance is part of that. It is not funded out of the consolidated revenue fund. It is funded through a specified account for EI, and therefore it is excluded from the estimates, but through this reconciliation we have backed it back in so that one can do a comparison of total expenses in the budget and the numbers presented in the main estimates.

It is fundamentally that difference in terms of purposes of the document and the fact that quite simply, some elements of government spending are not included in the estimates because they don't require appropriations.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

In the past without the reconciliation table, this would be buried and not provided in the same manner that we're providing, which makes it easier for you to ask that question or to have that information.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Yes, my sense is that prior to 2014-15, planned EI spending would have been included in the main estimates. I take the point that if the cash is now coming from a separate account, maybe that's not technically required, but the point would be that we should err on the side of maximum transparency, and I think you're trying to suggest that this reconciliation table does that, but that's what I'm driving at.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Yes, and as you look at the budget and estimates processes, these are recommendations you can look at, and this is something we would be interested in the committee's view on, actually.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

While we're on the topic of employment insurance, I do have to ask about Regina's continued exclusion from the temporary extension of benefits. The government brought in this extension of benefits as a response to the downturn in oil prices. There are eight employment insurance regions across Alberta and Saskatchewan. At this point seven of them are included in the benefit extension. Does it seem reasonable to you that Regina is still left out?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

It would seem reasonable to pose that question to Minister Mihychuk.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I have tried to do that.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

In about three hours you'll have an opportunity to do that in question period. She sits right next to me in the House, so give me a heads-up if you want me to let her know you're going to be asking her.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Okay. Very good then.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I just want her to be well prepared for your question, Mr. Weir.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Okay, you've got a heads-up that is something we're interested in.

I asked another of your colleagues, Minister Foote, about problems with the Phoenix pay system, but of course, the Treasury Board is the federal government's bargaining agent, so it's legitimate to ask you as well.

Employees of the RCMP depot in my riding have contacted my office about problems getting paid. Some government departments have even had to start issuing emergency cheques. I'm wondering what actions you've taken to resolve this issue and ensure that the government pays our public servants correctly and on time.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Thank you for the question.

The previous system was 40 years old. This is a new system, and as with most new IT systems, there are some challenges. We inherited some of these challenges. We're addressing them.

It was launched in two phases, in February and April 2016. We're working through those challenges. The staff at the Miramichi pay centre have received training and we've beefed up resources and are working closely with them to ensure that they have that. They are working on it. It's Minister Foote's department. You're quite right that it's something we're engaged in. I would urge you as a parliamentarian to bring any of these issues to our attention. We will take them to Minister Foote's department, Public Services and Procurement Canada, and we will take them to the Miramichi centre. We do want to know if there are issues. We recognize there are issues, and we're working through them, but we want to know, so please bring them to our attention.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

For the last seven-minute round, Mr. Drouin.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I'll let Mr. Grewal start, and then I'll take over.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister, and your officials, for coming today. We really appreciate it.

Supporting our post-secondary institutions across the country is extremely important. It's extremely important to the government's growth agenda and the innovation agenda. In the supplementary estimates, we've dedicated about $499 million to a post-secondary institution strategic investment fund. Minister, can you please outline what the program is all about and what the requirements are for the money to be distributed? I know Brampton has applied to the post-secondary institution fund, and we're hoping it gets approved in the coming months.