Government Operations Committee on June 7th, 2016

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Okay.

Did the 284 applications strike your organization as a sufficient number, a large number, or a small number? How many might we expect, going forward?

[Stephen Lucas]

I can't comment on that. I think the independent advisory board did provide a report on the process. It worked with a pool of applicants from which seven senators were announced.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Okay.

I'm just asking because it strikes me as kind of a low number, thinking back to the last general election when far more Canadians than that applied to become members of the House of Commons. I wonder if it says anything about the state of public confidence in the process. I don't know how far you can go in offering any views on that.

[Stephen Lucas]

I won't offer a broader view. I would just observe that this was an initial interim process. It was based on nominations. I think what's envisaged in the permanent phase coming is that it will be a broader opportunity for Canadians to apply and show their interest, without necessarily being nominated.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Recently, the government leader in the Senate requested almost $1 million in order to manage these senators who are supposed to be independent of the government. I wonder if that in any way compromises their independence, or if there is any way of addressing that through the process that PCO is overseeing.

[Stephen Lucas]

There's no relation between PCO support or funding and that of the Senate. Indeed, the Senate Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration is best suited to respond to that particular question on Senate funding.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lucas.

Madam Shanahan, please, you have seven minutes.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to both our witnesses for being here today.

It's very helpful for us newer members of Parliament to understand so much more about how our government functions.

If my understanding is correct, the purpose of the Privy Council Office is not to oversee the Senate or to oversee the publicity; it is to provide the support—as do our clerks in our committee and our staff in our member of Parliament offices—to the work we carry out on a day-to-day basis.

In that light, and correct me if I'm wrong, when we're talking about the work you have to do in the creation of a non-partisan merit-based Senate appointment process, the instructions are coming from another body. Can you just explain to us how you receive and carry out your instructions?

[Stephen Lucas]

Certainly.

Mr. Chair, more generally, as noted in the question, the role of the Privy Council Office is really threefold: one, to support the Prime Minister; two, to support cabinet in its decision-making; and three, to provide support for the public service through the Clerk's role as head of the public service. That includes support for appointment processes, both for Governor in Council appointments where decisions are taken by the Governor in Council but we provide and enable support in that process, and as announced and put into practice by the government, the new process for Senate nominations.

The process the government decided to undertake is one whereby there is an independent advisory board, as I noted, that provides recommendations to the Prime Minister. That advisory board has different configurations of membership on a province-by-province basis, with three federal members, chaired by Madame Huguette Labelle, and two members recommended by the province, or nominated by the Government of Canada if the province chooses not to recommend anyone.

In the case of the process that's being completed, they undertake a review of the nominations provided to them. Then, on that basis, they make recommendations to the Prime Minister of five names per vacancy.

The PCO's role, again, is to provide secretariat support for that process, anticipating the permanent phase of a web portal enabling Canadians to indicate their interest in applying.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Indeed, it is to create the website that's going to receive these applications, which I'm just guessing are going to be quite numerous when they are coming from the general public.

If I were not here as a member of Parliament, but just sitting at home, I'd certainly be interested in what the criteria is, as my fellow members are. It's pretty easy. You just google “Senate nomination process” and “Privy Council”, and that comes up.

The work you will be doing is creating a website designed to take in applications. As we saw with the recent resurgence of the census, the excitement on the part of the public can be such that the website could crash. Please tell us about what measures you're taking to make sure we can accept these applications.

[Karen Cahill]

We have taken very careful measures. We have done load tests, because we are knowledgeable of the fact that there will be a number of applicants who will go to our website to submit applications. We have taken measures. We have done load tests, as I said, to ensure our website can support this number of applicants.

We will have people monitoring the site and ensuring the site is available at all times so people across the country can apply.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Excellent.

Chair, do I have time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

You have about one and a half minutes.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

I'm giving that to my colleague, Mr. Drouin.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to the witnesses for appearing here today. We really appreciate it.

I want to build a little on Ms. Shanahan's question, but mostly on process with regard to the results and delivery, and the impact on performance management.

I'm trying to understand. The government has a new agenda for how they will measure, and they have new metrics. How does that transform from, let's say, cabinet to you guys, and then to individual departments? How do you measure that with different deputy ministers? Do you also set standards for their assistant deputy ministers, their directors general and directors, or do you just let the deputy ministers do that themselves?

[Stephen Lucas]

Indeed, Mr. Chair, it's a very good question because it is an area of transformation in the government's work. The government has always, through the report on plans and priorities and departmental performance reports, set performance measures and reported on those. I think the intent now is to have a closer oversight on both the establishment of those metrics identification data sources to support the measurement, and the ability to report on those to track progress of implementation and government priorities and report to Canadians through Parliament.

It's really a teamwork effort between the Privy Council Office and, as you noted, the secretariat on results and delivery, working with the Treasury Board Secretariat with the support of the President of the Treasury Board. They are responsible, if you will, for the stock of government spending through the normal planning and reporting process. They're looking at working to transform that and strengthen performance measures for which deputies and ministers will need to ultimately sign off.

Then, through the Privy Council Office, it's working with departments, as well as supporting cabinet, looking for the top priorities of government to have a particular focus on the results that are being sought to be achieved, whether it's closing the socio-economic gaps between indigenous communities and Canadians in general, or working to achieve targets of the government in regard to climate change and providing that oversight and support to ensure a focus on implementation and delivery of results for Canadians.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

I think we have enough time for two five-minute rounds.

Mr. McCauley, you're up.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Welcome back.

I want to clear this up. You mentioned the oversight of the partisan ads. You mentioned that the Auditor General was going to be overseeing that, but he is not. I understand he is overseeing the overseers of that. Is that correct?

[Stephen Lucas]

Let me respond to that point. I'll just find my specific note here, so that I give you the best possible answer.

As I said, the measure that has been announced by the President of the Treasury Board is to ensure that government advertising with a budget greater than $500,000 will be subject to a mandatory external review by Advertising Standards Canada relative to the criteria set by the government—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

So it's not the Auditor General.

[Stephen Lucas]

Right.

However, the Office of the Auditor General is being asked to audit this overall review process to assess its effectiveness. This will help inform the government and parliamentarians as they consider a permanent oversight process, which the government had—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

You're using up my time, but you've answered my question. Thanks.

That comes from the minister, not from your internal body, as a decision-making—

[Stephen Lucas]

It was a decision announced by the President of the Treasury Board, who was mandated by the Prime Minister to have regard to the communications policy and the advertising oversight.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Perfect.

Very quickly, I couldn't help but note that you've put 17% of your entire comments on your preamble justifying the Prime Minister's website. I found that a bit odd.

Getting back to the five people who are being hired to help the Senate selection committee, what will their general role be? Are they going to be taking these 400 or 500 applications for people who want to be in the Senate, collating them, and then passing them on? They will not have any ability to call any people who aren't at all qualified in any way. Are they just collating and passing it up the line to the Senate selection committee?

[Stephen Lucas]

As I indicated, the body providing the advice to the Prime Minister in regard—