Government Operations Committee on Sept. 20th, 2016

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you.

Mr. Weir is next.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

As tempted as I am to speak in favour of your motion supporting the Roughriders, I'm going to turn this over to my colleague, Madam Trudel.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Weir. Good afternoon, everyone.

Unlike my colleague, Mr. Blaney, I am very disappointed with your report. The document describes viable options. I understand that you carried out a financial analysis, but I was expecting to see more solutions. The preamble spends a lot of time on the Canada Post situation. However, I am under the impression that, after our tour, the same report will be submitted to the minister. I have a feeling that it's already done. The report comes to several conclusions instead of outlining potential solutions.

In your report, you mentioned a number of experts and researchers. A number of figures were also put forward. For example, on page 82, it is not explained where those figures come from. Who are the experts? Who carried out the studies? I would like to know what information was gathered through surveys. Earlier, you also said that you received a number of submissions. What I am asking for is that the task force make available to the parliamentary committee the information it used, so that the members can consult and review it before they draft their report.

You talked about Canada Post's financial situation. In 2011, when you conducted the financial analysis, you made no mention of the lockout. Why did you not mention it? That was a difficult year for Canada Post.

Much has been said about banking services. Canada Post actually carried out a study on the topic. As part of the committee's work, I have previously asked that the study be made public. It was made public, but it was censored. I think it would be relevant for us to also receive that document, as it contains useful information. If the banks have made $135 billion in profits, there is surely some sort of availability in terms of that market.

You also talked about a number of solutions. Some potential solutions require an infrastructure investment. So I would like to know why you have already rejected the proposal of postal banking. Do you have with you a non-censored document on the study Canada Post carried out on postal banking?

[Françoise Bertrand]

I will answer and then yield the floor to my colleagues.

I want you to know, Ms. Trudel, that I understand your disappointment. I often joke that we would have liked to figure out the Caramilk secret. There are no easy solutions. We are presenting options. You will carry out consultations and choose the most meaningful ones. We still wanted to gather information, as that is our mandate, so that we can determine whether this is a serious issue that can be easily resolved or a deeper problem. As for the advent of digital technology and the way Canadians....

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

I apologize for interrupting you. I understand that. We have talked a lot about this problem.

Time is running out and I would like to get explanations on my two questions.

[Françoise Bertrand]

As for the question on the year 2011 and the lockout, we actually considered only the last five years. On average, Canada Post has not been profitable over that period. In 2014 and 2015, the slight profit made in terms of revenue had to do with the increase in the price of stamps, which went from 63¢ to 85¢. We know full well that, if the stamp price increases too quickly, even more market shares may be lost. So it's a very delicate issue.

As for the option of postal banking, I think we felt that it was extremely important to point out, for your consideration, the investments necessary for establishing a sustainable bank. In fact, as part our mandate, there is no simple formula. That is why we talked about a post office that could double as a bank counter.

As for the documents you say you need, they have been transmitted to the department, and I think you could reach out to its representatives through the chair of the committee. We are not authorized to make the documents public. That is not our responsibility.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

For clarification—and this won't cut into your time—any draft reports remain confidential. Of course, once reports are tabled in the House of Commons, they are certainly available to us, and to the general public as well.

There is about a minute and a half left.

Ms. McLaughlin, go ahead.

[Marena McLaughlin, Member, Task Force on Canada Post Corporation]

Ms. Trudel, I would also like to add that, when we carried out the consultations with Canadians, 99.1% of respondents said that they had a bank account, be it in caisses populaires or other financial institutions. When we checked with citizens and companies, only 7% of individuals and 11% of the industry said that they might use postal banking. Given that 99.1% of Canadians already have an account in a caisse or in a bank, the market is very limited. As Ms. Bertrand mentioned, we have to take into account changes to legislation, international trade, policies of the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions, OSFI, and all relevant regulations. In addition, that would be bordering on a conflict with caisses populaires, which are often located in rural and remote regions. Money laundering also has to be prevented. Investments would have to made in too many sectors.

In short, after considering the issue, we concluded that, in our opinion, that would not have been a viable operation. However, you feel that this is another story.

[Françoise Bertrand]

Experts have told us that, nowadays, that is an operation that involves a major risk a public institution cannot take.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much for that.

Monsieur Robillard, welcome back to our committee. You have seven minutes, please.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for joining us today. Unlike my colleague, I want to congratulate you on the tremendous work you have accomplished. The task force's report covers a number of issues, but I find that the security of Canadians and Canada Post users has been overlooked.

In my riding, a number of constituents I represent here have told me about security issues related to community mailboxes. As Canada Post provides a service for the owners of 19,766 public mailboxes and the mailing of letters your document talks about in detail, what is your assessment of the designated locations' security?

[Françoise Bertrand]

Thank you for your question.

It is true that we have not had an in-depth look at the security issue. In the discussion groups we organized before the surveys, we were essentially told two things—first that, very often, print ads would end up on the ground around mailboxes and, second, that people were concerned about mail security.

However, when we asked Canadians and businesses questions, they recognized the reliability of the service. When we carried out a scientific survey, the matter of security did not seem to be a problem. We have noted that there may, however, still be some concerns and that is what Mr. Hopson referred to earlier. If we do not explain to you how that will be done, and if we do not provide you with the information on the goal of the exercise, there are bound to be some concerns. However, the majority of Canadians who have gone from having door-to-door delivery to mailbox delivery are currently satisfied with the service.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Before I move on to my second question, I would like to point out that I did the work in my riding and that people from Canada Post peopleeven came to meet with me. Based on their answers, I saw that people were starting to identify dangerous road sections. For example, in a small street that leads to some parts of my riding, the speed is extreme. Canada Post was open-minded, and we managed to move two sets of mailboxes.

[Françoise Bertrand]

That is what the municipalities have told us. We met with associations that felt that they were not consulted sufficiently about the location of mailboxes. They wished Canada Post would consult them regarding the best locations. Some mailboxes would benefit from being more secure, be it in terms of road traffic or the prevention of mail theft.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you.

My last question is about Canada Post's solvency. That is an important topic for all of us. The security of the service provided by Canada Post must not be a neglected priority. What can you tell us about ways to ensure users' security, despite the changes that could affect Canada Post could?

[Françoise Bertrand]

Mr. Robillard, are you referring to security related to alternating delivery days or strictly to security related to mailboxes?

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Both.

[Françoise Bertrand]

Our surveys have revealed that Canadians are extremely satisfied when it comes to that. There were no doubts expressed about Canada Post's ability to ensure the best possible service. As I said already, the reliability of delivery and the signature service contribute to the quality of Canada Post's service.

Moreover, many Canadians recognize that they are making little use and even decreasing their use of Canada Post's services. However, they still feel that the service they are provided with surpasses their expectations. The answers provided to the questions in the survey we conducted and those provided in the discussion groups we organized suggested that Canadians felt that they were not informed early enough, thus being deprived of an opportunity to speak out on the best ways to do things.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

In a way, Canada Post is the face of the federal government in our communities. It is important for that service to be associated with a high level of trust. Beyond the initial assessment, what can you tell us about the response mechanism and its structure when a problematic situation is brought to Canada Post's attention?

[Françoise Bertrand]

People have indicated pretty clearly that they wished there had been more consultation, information and communication. They are not questioning the methods we have employed or the approaches we have adopted, but rather our ways of doing things. You will see in the options we are putting forward that we really stress the importance of a collaboration between the stakeholders. That must be done with a knowledge of causes and the sharing of information, as it is only together that we can find the best solutions. That is what we are advocating when we talk about realignment or transformation. That can't only be done on paper. Since you will undertake an extensive consultation, this will be a good aspect to consider in your process.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to five-minute rounds.

Our first intervenor is Mr. McCauley.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Welcome. Thanks for joining us today, everyone, except for Mr. Hopson, whose Roughriders beat the Eskimos in overtime Sunday. Thank you, and thank you for the team you brought with you.

Did you look at the the previous five-point plan that the Conference Board had helped develop for Canada Post? I wonder if you could just share your views on that. Is that a viable thing to go back to, considering everything that you've studied?

[Françoise Bertrand]

Thank you for the question. We had prepared for that one.

It was in our mandate to—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

The top one is the obvious one, the conversion, but what about the other items?

[Françoise Bertrand]

We were asked to look at past reviews and to look at what had happened. Definitely the five-point plan is a constructive approach to a situation.

When we say “in 2016”, it's not sufficient. It's interesting, but we have to adapt to where we are today.

Maybe I'll let my colleague Krys give you some more details.