Government Operations Committee on Sept. 26th, 2016

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Boisclair, you have the floor.

[Maurice Boisclair, President, Club Lorr « Aînés »]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I represent an association called the Club Lorr « Aînés », a name that was created from the words “Lorraine” and “aînés”, or “seniors” in English.

Our club is affiliated with FADOQ. You will understand that our technical research services aren't very sophisticated, so the report we are presenting will be fairly qualitative.

FADOQ has very fairly described the concept of an adequate quality of life for seniors. Health, safety, well-being and belonging are the fundamental pillars. Quite naturally, home mail delivery seems to us to be a very important aspect of the quality of life.

At a time when the government is making an effort, still insufficient but real all the same, to keep seniors who want to remain in their homes at home, ending home mail delivery seems to be purely counterintuitive.

In May 2014, the Club Lorr « Aînés » asked the City of Lorraine to put pressure on Canada Post to keep this service. In August that same year, we sent a letter to the federal minister responsible for Canada Post, Lisa Raitt, and to the Government of Canada, requesting a stop to the changes to services announced and to consider new sources of revenue. We know that these actions failed.

Community mailboxes have slowly started to appear, but this solution is far from adequate for people with decreasing independence, no matter how slight. We are seeing that winter maintenance of the area around community mailboxes leaves much to be desired. Remember that people deemed to be independent can't get up alone after a fall.

After pressure from some local organizations, a few concessions were made. For example, a 98-year-old woman, who is a member of our club, obtained mail delivery to her home once a week, without having to undergo a medical exam. That is a small consolation.

What can be considered for the future? Bringing back home delivery twice or three times a week? A minimum would be to provide home delivery twice a week to all people considered to be at risk and anyone over 80 who requests it.

I will read some excerpts from the notice submitted by FADOQ in 2015 because it contains some aspects that have just been mentioned.

WHEREAS Canada Post wants to encourage Canadians to use online services, seniors are penalized through their lower rates of connectivity and digital literacy; According to the Institut de statistiques du Québec, close to 32% of seniors age 65 [only 32%!] and older use the Internet. In that same age group, 44.5% use it to pay bills or perform bank transactions. Although seniors increasingly tend to use the Internet, the figures are telling. More than half of them do not use the online services of the various institutions, therefore relying on the mail. WHEREAS we are strongly defending the right of seniors to remain independent at home for as long as possible; FADOQ has been maintaining for many years that it is fundamental for seniors and the government to encourage home support and extending individual independence by strengthening outreach services.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Merci beaucoup.

We'll start our seven-minute rounds with Monsieur Ayoub, please.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the three of you for joining us for another round of questions.

Mr. Flanagan, your comments about services spoke for themselves. It's important to know what the opinion on the street is. Along with Mr. Boisclair—who had a front row seat—I have experienced the loss of home mail delivery, especially in Lorraine.

Many changes have been asked of a population that had no say. The more we learn about the consultations, the more confirmation we get that there weren't any beforehand. Still, there is a great willingness. Listening to you today, we are seeing that opinions differ when it comes to solutions. In some cases, we're being told that the mail should be delivered to homes once citizens reach age 65. In other cases, that age is 80. According to stakeholders, it's about delivering the mail two or three times a week. You're suggesting improvements despite the ongoing loss of services.

I'd like your opinion on the situation that existed before services were cut back and the current one. In the past, a certain service was provided. Now that it has been taken away in our region, which is part of the Lower Laurentians, how are people managing? How did they react? Obviously, they may not have been happy with the change, but what has been the impact of this removal of the service and how are citizens managing in their daily life?

[Georges Flanagan]

As I explained earlier, I spoke to my members, and everyone present—there were over 100 people—told me that they had always been fully satisfied with Canada Post's services. No details were discussed, but the only negative comment had to do with home delivery for some of the seniors. The problem wasn't an issue for many of them because they live in condo towers or retirement homes where they already have community mailboxes. So I didn't get any comments about Canada Post's specific services.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Mr. Boisclair, do you want to add anything?

[Maurice Boisclair]

Allow me to digress for a moment with something that may have nothing to do with the current discussion.

The closure of the postal outlet in Lorraine has upset us more because it's very disruptive. The city still has a population of 10,000. It's really a problem for the citizens of Lorraine who have to go to another municipality to buy stamps, send parcels or have a letter weighed.

As for the mailbox, as long as it's the summer, early fall or late spring and you can get around easily, it would have been an inconvenience to be cranky about this. But when winter comes, knowing that the median age of our members is 73—meaning that half of our members are 73 years or older—it's another story. The oldest citizen is in Bois-des-Filion, and she's 101. She's the one who got mail delivery at her home once a month.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Once a month or once a week?

[Maurice Boisclair]

I'm sorry. Once a week.

The mailboxes are placed strategically so that they look nice. They are on a small path near a wooded area with a nice slope. Come winter, and the first ice, it may take one, two or three days before people can get to the mailbox. Some days, they can't open the box because of the ice, but it isn't a huge deal. They say that they'll come back the next day, that there will be a slight thaw and they'll manage to get it open.

The criticism I often hear is that snow removal around the boxes isn't always done properly. Near my home, near a school, people park near the community mailbox. When the snow plow goes by, the driver obviously doesn't get out of the vehicle with a shovel to clean around it. He moves on to the next place. That means that we are stuck for a week or two with a pile of ice on top of the snow that was already on the ground. Obviously, this irritates people.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I must interrupt you because I really don't have much time.

You gave the example of the 101-year-old woman in Bois-des-Filion who managed to get personalized service at home. Is this a possibility you've known about for some time? If you had been informed earlier, would it have changed the situation for people with special needs who might have access to personalized service?

Personally, I only found out last week that such an arrangement was possible.

[Maurice Boisclair]

The woman in question didn't want to undergo a medical exam. However, she knows a Radio-Canada reporter who followed her progress, her aging and her lifestyle for a series of reports. I think this played in her favour.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Normally, a medical certificate or examination of some kind is required, but you need a doctor's certificate to get this exemption.

[Maurice Boisclair]

Yes. You need to see a doctor, and if you are already having difficulty finding one to take care of you, you'll have difficulty getting the certificate.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Definitely. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

We have Mr. McCauley for seven minutes, please.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Gentlemen, thank you very much for being here. I appreciate your passion and your volunteer work. In my past life, before I fell into this, I used to be head of Victoria's largest seniors foundation, Victoria Hospitals Foundation, so I admire what you're doing and I appreciate it.

I want to get back to what Mr. Ayoub was discussing mostly with you, Mr. Boisclair, about the community boxes. You answered a bit of it. We've heard that we need to do better consultation with neighbourhoods about where the box is placed. It's difficult, but if it had been placed in a more accessible location without the same ice issues, etc.... I have some of them in my riding, where it's a beautiful spot in the summertime, but, yes, come winter, it's impossible to get the plow down. Is it a more workable solution to some of your members, do you think, knowing that some seniors are infirm, but a good amount are still quite mobile? If it's in a better location, is it a matter of better location and better consulting, or is it just that there's going to be no solution with the snow?

[Maurice Boisclair]

There are always small problems. We can't stop anyone from always parking their car across from a mailbox. I've been in this situation. I've been told that elsewhere—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

We'll give your organization some of those Denver boots.

[Maurice Boisclair]

Generally speaking, we often hear comments like the areas around mailboxes weren't cleared safely for everyone. Obviously, it isn't a problem for some people, but for people who really have mobility problems, it really does cause a problem.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Right.

[Georges Flanagan]

Think about someone who is 80 or 81. Even if that person is healthy and still fairly mobile, that person is 80 or 81 and fragile. If that person has to leave the house in winter to go to a community mailbox—like the one you described—if it's the slightest bit slippery and if there's a small snow bank, there's a risk of a fall and serious injury. I think we need to be very sensitive to that.

I'm not there yet.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Yes, Mr. Boisclair explained it well.

[Georges Flanagan]

Yes, he explained it very well.

I'm not that old yet. I'm 68 and am already having some problems I didn't have before, but as for the members of my association, many of them volunteer to the extent they are able. Once you reach 80 or 81 years of age, the capacity isn't always there. That's why, as I said earlier, I think we need to be sensitive to people with difficulties because more difficulties are being created with a service that is essential.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Right.

Mr. Boisclair, you were—

[Maurice Boisclair]

For one or two weeks in the winter, the street becomes a skating rink. For a man or woman who is 75, 80 or 85, having to go out and—