Just one more—
Evidence of meeting #36 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was banking.
Evidence of meeting #36 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was banking.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Scott Duvall NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON
There's also a cost with the permit fees when you have the road allowance in the municipalities. Canada Post seems to want to avoid paying those costs, which has taken a lot of money away from the municipality. Do you feel that's fair? In avoiding those costs that are being downloaded, even though you're getting the service, they're not reducing the price. Now you have to pay a new cost for something that's not the municipality's fault, but that of Canada Post.
11:45 a.m.
Past President, Senior Citizens and Pensioners of Nova Scotia
It would be the same answer. If you're downloading, you're downloading—and brother, if you want to put it in there, Canada Post is not losing money. In organizations, one part may be losing money but another part is making money. If all you look at is the one that's losing money and you decide to drop that one and keep going.... No, they should feed that one and get it straightened out and away they go. That's business. That's smart business.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you very much.
Panellists who are not fluently bilingual may want to put on headsets.
Our next intervenor will be Monsieur Ayoub,
You have seven minutes. Go ahead.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to start by thanking all of you for being with us today. It's wonderful to listen to you speak, since you clearly care about those you represent and your fellow community members. You have a job to do, but, much to your credit, you also volunteer many hours of your time. As a former city councillor and mayor, I fully understand the attachment you form with your fellow community members.
My first question has to do with consultation. I'd like you to confirm this, but my sense is that, a few years ago, you weren't at all consulted on the changes that were eventually made to Canada Post's services. If that is indeed the case and you weren't consulted, is this the first time you have been consulted since then, or have you taken part in other forms of consultation?
Perhaps Mr. Brigley could go first.
11:45 a.m.
Chair, Dartmouth, ACORN Canada
No, I have not been consulted on the matter myself, but I know that ACORN—as a group, and it is Canada-wide—has had members attend various postal banking events where there was consultation and review, so they have had the opportunity to be consulted on it and to review the matter.
11:45 a.m.
Chair, Board of Directors, Feed Nova Scotia
No, I don't believe we were consulted directly, but I know that two years ago we submitted a written brief expressing our concerns about the proposed changes. I'm not sure in what context that was, but there was a letter submitted from our organization.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
11:45 a.m.
Executive Director, Community Links Association
Similarly, we discussed the issue of Canada Post through the Seniors' Advisory Council. In Nova Scotia, we have a Seniors' Advisory Council to the provincial government, and through that we gave some opinions to the federal government. Our organization also sent a letter in March 2015 saying similar things to what I've read today.
One thing I should note about that letter, though, is it took an enormous amount of time to find the address of the head of Canada Post, at that time Deepak Chopra. It took me at least an hour to find an address. The only address I could find was something in New Brunswick.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
11:45 a.m.
Past President, Senior Citizens and Pensioners of Nova Scotia
No, I don't recall being involved in it. I've been retired for 25 years. I was a union representative at that time and I was usually talking to most of the young government employees. What I was with would be close to CUPW. I don't recall having any of that.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you.
If I understand correctly, then, any communication or information-sharing was on your initiative. But when I asked about consultation, I was referring to being invited to contribute and receive information, a much more accessible process than having to spend an hour looking for the right address to mail your letter to.
Turning to the seniors and retirees, I'd like to know how you define a senior, a retiree with a disability? Could you give me a quick definition just to help me better understand? Does the person have to be a certain age or have a specific physical condition?
11:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Community Links Association
Our organization goes with people 55-plus, but I think we generally accept that the official definition is 65-plus.
In terms of disabilities, there's such a range. For anyone who has to walk with a cane in the winter to a lockbox a few blocks away from their home, that's a huge impediment. It's not necessarily someone with a severe disability, although those people are even more disadvantaged.
I think there's too much of a range to describe it.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
11:50 a.m.
Past President, Senior Citizens and Pensioners of Nova Scotia
I'm the same as Anne. The thing I hear is it's looked upon as 65. We put on safe driving courses for seniors across the province. The province will give a rebate to any senior over 65 who takes the driving program. At 65, 55, and even 45, they are regarded as zoomers. From our perspective, we look at people 65 and over as seniors.
Disability is the same. As I said, you can look good, but, man, you can go down fast.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
I'd like to move on to something else, but I very much see what you're getting at.
In the past, retirees have come to see me to discuss the issue of remaining in their homes. They weren't interested in moving to a retirement home, apartment, or residence. They wanted to stay in their homes. They didn't want to lose their independence, their privacy, or their freedom. The risk, though, is that they can end up isolated.
Can letter carriers help bring seniors out of their isolation, or can that be achieved in other ways, besides through interactions with the letter carrier once a day or every couple of days? What are your thoughts on that?
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Unfortunately, we don't have much more than about 30 seconds, Ms. Corbin.
11:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Community Links Association
I think one of the ways that will break isolation is if someone comes to deliver your mail. I know my neighbour across the street had a great relationship with her postal worker and would have a short chat with him as he came to the door, and that really helped her sense of isolation. It's one of the ways. It's certainly not the only way.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
We're going into our final two intervenors for five minutes each. First up we have Mr. Kmiec.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
Thank you all for coming today.
I only have five minutes and I'm going to try to ask you to please keep your responses short. I have a bunch of questions I've been mulling over here.
I'll start by saying that I'm glad to hear that at least half of you and your organizations were able to participate in the previous Canada Post consultations and were informed on how their business processes were going.
Maybe what I'll start with mentioning is something that Ms. Ratansi mentioned before on postal banking. I'll start with Mr. Brigley.
Using the Indian example to capitalize the bank, it took half a billion dollars put in by the Government of India just to capitalize the bank. What we're trying to do here, or what we're supposed to look at, is the long-term sustainability of Canada Post, and we have a shortfall of $700 million by 2026. How will we resolve that? To capitalize the bank in order for it to be able to take deposits and make out loans, they need a float. How would we make that work, on top of all that I mentioned before to the previous intervenors who came here, with the problem of training, setting up the logistics, and setting up the software systems? We're trying to ensure long-term sustainability, but it sounds as though this would be a large investment into Canada Post that may not bear the return that we need.
11:55 a.m.
Chair, Dartmouth, ACORN Canada
I think one thing that can help bring back the revenue is that, of course, in a lot of the rural areas you do see post offices that basically have been put down to almost nothing except for just a building there, which could be easily used for the postal bank. That would be saving money on the actual building of a bank just for Canada Post.
As for training and software, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of local communities that have a lot of high-tech guys whose main focus is on computers and software and who work in low-income areas and rural areas. I have met quite a few of them in my travels. They could easily be trained to help Canada Post workers learn the basics of how to work the software and training. Whatever the set interest rate is, people would come to the banks to use them.
If I remember correctly, I know when I was a kid I didn't see this, but it was pointed out by many people who were a few years older than I was that there used to be some kind of banking already, back in the day.