Government Operations Committee on Oct. 7th, 2016

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

And that's true, because none of your businesses project insolvency, do they? They say “Well, here are my opportunities and here are my challenges, and how I project opportunities; I change the challenges to opportunities.”

[Louis Thériault]

These rules exist for a reason.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Oh, yes, absolutely—

[Louis Thériault]

Before changing the charter, I am suggesting you have to be really careful because the solvency dimension of those pension plans—

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

—the government would have to absorb it.

[Louis Thériault]

—is measured in terms of the operation versus long-term solvency. Those rules are in place for really good reasons, and you have to be really careful before going there.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Here is my question then. When you look at challenges that Canada Post was facing from a quantitative perspective, did you look at something that would change those challenges into opportunities? I know Mr. Anderson has thought about the concept of postal banking, and it has been extremely successful. It depends on how you look at it, whether it's the glass half full or half empty, and your perception is what determines the outcome.

[Louis Thériault]

This is a really important point, and it's back to making sure that we—like we did on the cost side.... I totally reconfirm that our mandate was just to look at alternative ways of delivering cost savings. We didn't really look at the revenue-generating side so much, and there are options there. Again, those options, I would argue, in that context are more speculative, because you don't know.... Postal banking—

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Okay, we always speculate. By the way, I've done receiverships of banks as well, so I know there is speculation on all sides—

[Louis Thériault]

It has to be assessed more thoroughly.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Okay. Mr. Anderson—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Very briefly.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

—what are some of the challenges that Canada Post would face if it were to go into postal banking?

[John Anderson]

I think the challenges it would face would be to look at implementing this process, as I said, in a gradual and systematic manner, not jumping into it. If they jumped into it, that would be a mistake. It would be a mistake just to say, okay, tomorrow we're going to offer postal banking everywhere in the country etc., with full bank services.

Also it would be challenging if they didn't partner with both the federal government's banking expertise, the three federal institutions that do banking, plus private banks and credit unions, which could help to offer certain services. If they were to do so, the challenges would be very small because the point is that this is a known. The vice-president for financial services in the U.K. offered to come over. He said, “I'll come over and tell you how to set it up”. It was a kind of a joke, in part, but what I'm saying is that this is something in which there is world expertise that we could employ. It's not something where we're out there asking “What is this? How do we do it?” No, there is lots of expertise.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thanks very much.

Gentlemen, thank you all for being here. I appreciate the time that you've taken out of your busy days and schedules to be here.

One other point I would offer to you, should you have additional information that you think would be of benefit to this committee, please submit it directly to our clerk. We'll make sure that we examine it and that it will form part of our final report. I encourage you, should you have that additional information, do that within the next couple of weeks because it is during that time frame that we'll start to draft our report.

Thank you once again. They were great presentations.

We will suspend for a few moments to await our next panel.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Ladies and gentlemen and committee members, could we have everyone back at the table, if possible?

Thank you.

Welcome to our panellists who are with us this morning.

Many of you may have been in the room for the first session. I'm not sure if all of you were. To give you a couple of quick opening comments, we will start with this consultation, which will be a question and answer process with all of our committee members. First, however, I will ask each of you to give a brief opening statement of five minutes or less. That will allow all committee members an opportunity to go a little more in-depth with some of your issues.

We're looking for recommendations, suggestions, and observations about the future of Canada Post.

We're very happy to have all of you here this morning. I have first on my list as panellists, Madame Gagnon and Monsieur Godbout.

I believe you'll be splitting your time. If you can do that, please the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Judith Gagnon, President, Association québécoise de défense des droits des personnes retraitées et préretraitées]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I will introduce our association.

Our association is dedicated to seniors rights advocacy and has been operating in Quebec for more than 35 years. We represent people from all categories. We do a lot of advocacy work on behalf of vulnerable seniors, since ours is the only association exclusively engaged in seniors rights advocacy.

The purpose of our vision of aging, which is positive, is to maintain seniors' power to act. The purpose of our demands is to provide assistance to seniors, particularly those who live in situations of poverty and isolation.

We did not appreciate the decision Canada Post made in 2013 to put an end to home mail delivery in urban areas in order to save money. That measure has had a major impact on seniors, particularly those who are vulnerable. Some seniors are unable to go and pick up their mail outdoors and are consequently very happy to have it delivered to their homes. If home mail delivery were abolished, they would be the first victims. Some less mobile seniors would have to call on others to help them. Cases of abuse could arise in certain situations.

I am going to speak briefly about Quebec. Quebec society is aging very quickly and that fact must be taken into account. Persons 65 years of age and over, who form 17.6% of the population today, will represent approximately 26% in 2031. The age pyramid is incredible. And yet life expectancy is increasing, and the number of people living alone is rising as well. That is a very important fact. Public pension plans are inadequate. Did you know that nearly half of Quebecers 65 and over receive the guaranteed income supplement?

They are really not rich. Our first observation is that local services have suffered cuts. This is incredible. Local services have been reduced, tariffed or cut. Home services are underfunded and bank windows are being closed. If home mail delivery service is abolished, that will have an enormous impact on the remote regions. What will happen? Some places will become devitalized areas.

Seniors are vulnerable to bad weather. If they have to go pick up their mail from mailboxes in cold, icy weather, they may fall. Can it then be said that this population is being provided with adequate public service? I am not sure. This also puts additional pressure on family caregivers, who are already under enough pressure as it is.

With respect to digital literacy, only 32% of seniors 65 and over use the Internet. This means that the remainder do not use it and that it is not a functioning technology in their case.

Our first recommendation is that Canada Post take into account the needs of an aging population by restoring and maintaining home delivery service. The goal is to help seniors stay at home as long as possible and thus to improve their quality of life.

We do not understand why the federal government establishes so many programs to help break down seniors' isolation. It invests several millions of dollars here and there, particularly for home support. However, mail is a home service that helps overcome isolation. It is in addition to other services. A degree of consistency in the government's measures is therefore necessary.

We are witnessing an increasingly pronounced exclusion of seniors and a loss of the social role of letter carriers. This may seem curious, but for isolated people who see no one, it is important to see their letter carrier arrive at their door. Perhaps letter carriers could even be asked to take on another social role.

We are talking about requiring proof of a medical disorder for citizens who are suffering from such a disorder to be able to continue receiving their mail at home.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Madame Gagnon, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to interrupt you. We're over the time already. It has been our experience, however, that all of the information you may not have got to in your opening statement will come out during the questions and answers. But we'll have to move on, because we want to make sure that there's enough time for all committee members to ask questions.

Our next panellist will be Mr. Collomb d’Eyrames.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Olivier Collomb d’Eyrames, Director General, Regroupement des organismes de personnes handicapées de la région 03]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, my name is Olivier Collomb d'Eyrames, and I work at the Regroupement des organismes de personnes handicapées de la région 03, which covers the Capitale-Nationale, Quebec City, Charlevoix, and Portneuf. I am accompanied by Simon April, from the Comité d'action des personnes vivant des situations de handicap. That committee, which is a member of our organization, represents persons suffering from motor difficulties.

I am happy to have arrived in time to hear the end of the previous presentation. We also wonder about the consistency of government measures. Our questions will be along the same lines as those of the AQDR.

The federal government has launched an extensive consultation on a potential Canadian accessibility bill. That is interesting. What has just been said gives us an idea of the impact Canada Post may have on maintaining the vitality of the communities or cutting other services. This is a central issue in our thinking.

Allow me to cite a specific example: adapted transport service. In many cases, this service is limited to an area and is not provided outside it. If services are abolished because Canada Post withdraws from a community, people will become even more dependent on their family caregivers or will have to pay a fortune in order to travel.

As sustainable development is another major issue for the current federal government, I would note that much less pollution is generated when a service is concentrated in one location and people can travel there because it is located nearby. In our view, it is slightly more economical for people to carpool in order to distribute mail rather than have everyone individually go and pick it up. I do not think you need a PhD to understand that.

We are now dealing with a federal government that wants to take measures to facilitate access to services for persons with disabilities. In Quebec, we sometimes find it hard to see what the federal government is trying to do, given the way jurisdictions are distributed. However, the federal government can really do something about Canada Post. This time, it cannot invoke provincial jurisdictions and hold more discussions. There appears to be an instrument that can be used.

We feel that the solutions proposed by the Union des municipalités du Québec are very interesting. It so happens that I come from France and that the post office there is a postal bank, a service provider, and a local connection. These are aspects that Judith mentioned earlier. As for the letter carrier's role, we could even think of it as including the delivery of medication and forms. These are possibilities that should be explored.

We have also considered at length what was broadcast in the media three years ago concerning Canada Post's wish to cancel home mail delivery service. However, community mailboxes had already been installed in several regions, particularly in many developing neighbourhoods. We wonder about the approach that should be taken to accessing that service. It must be as simple as possible. It should be noted that, in many cases in Quebec, a physician has to be paid to draft a few lines that constitute a medical certificate. If the person is fortunate and the physician completes the certificate correctly the first time without having to do it over, the cost will be $50 or $75.

People are already being asked to complete forms, particularly for disability tax credits and CNIB cards for blind persons. Proof of eligibility for adapted transportation may also be requested. It is possible to refrain from always asking those people to complete forms. Less regulation is one of the good ideas that the previous government proposed. It would be a good idea to retain it.

Now I am going to submit a few brief points to you on the fly.

It is time to verify what is happening with the delivery of documents written in braille. Thanks to an exemption, documents written in braille are delivered free of charge. However, we have heard that, when a hand-written document is found in a large pile of documents written in braille, it results in a significant loss of time because everything has to be checked.

There is also the problem of sidewalks cluttered with mailboxes. The fact that the mailboxes are installed nearby makes life easier, but, if they clutter the sidewalks, people in wheelchairs are unable to circulate, which is unconscionable. Canada Post should issue a policy stating that, if the free space measures less than 1.75 metres, the sidewalk must be cleared. Otherwise that prevents people from circulating.

I believe I have covered all the questions I wanted to raise.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Mr. April, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Simon April, Project Manager and Communications Officer, Comité d'action des personnes vivant des situations de handicap]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am accompanying Mr. Collomb d'Eyrames. This is the same presentation, but I would simply add this.

I have been asked how many times I myself have mailed a letter. I realize I have never done so because mailboxes hurt me. I have not been able to mail a letter myself for a very long time. It is a quite difficult. The same is true of the community mailboxes.

Why not reserve the first row of community mailboxes for people in wheelchairs or with reduced mobility? Why put them virtually everywhere in places where we, like everyone else, cannot go?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Ayoub, you have the floor for seven minutes.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here with us this morning.

I am always very sensitive to questions concerning retirees or pre-retirees and persons with reduced mobility.

[Olivier Collomb d’Eyrames]

We have limitations.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

We have to make decisions concerning Canada Post. We have to make recommendations following our consultations. That is why we are trying to get a clear idea of needs and to identify solutions. We are seeking your opinion in order to determine solutions. You have outlined a number of needs and issues. I would have liked to know the solutions that are likely to be applied.

With regard to support, there was talk about offering home delivery to persons with a medical certificate. If that kind of solution does not suit you, what kind of solution would you be in favour of in order to help preserve home delivery service for these people?