Evidence of meeting #40 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was seniors.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Alexandre Cusson  Mayor, Drummondville City, Union of Quebec Municipalities
Hervé Esch  Director General and Secretary-Treasurer, Municipalité de Ristigouche-sud-Est
Louis Thériault  Vice-President, Public Policy, The Conference Board of Canada
John Anderson  Research Associate, National Office, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
Judith Gagnon  President, Association québécoise de défense des droits des personnes retraitées et préretraitées
Olivier Collomb d’Eyrames  Director General, Regroupement des organismes de personnes handicapées de la région 03
Simon April  Project Manager and Communications Officer, Comité d'action des personnes vivant des situations de handicap
Claude Godbout  Revenue and Tax Committee Representative, Association québécoise de défense des droits des personnes retraitées et préretraitées

October 7th, 2016 / 10:45 a.m.

Claude Godbout Revenue and Tax Committee Representative, Association québécoise de défense des droits des personnes retraitées et préretraitées

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to make an initial comment.

I am not sure we have to limit exceptional measures to people who have a medical certificate. Some individuals do not necessarily have a disability that entitles them to special permission.

Consider seniors. When there is black ice and it is slippery out, seniors have as much trouble going to pick up their mail from their mailboxes as persons with disabilities. We must not limit ourselves to the idea of a medical certificate. It is initial caution that must be exercised.

We have not done a detailed study of all the options proposed in the brief. However, we can imagine a few of them. For example, if I can rely on what was said, someone mentioned earlier that Canada Post was anticipating an accumulated operating loss of approximately $700 million over the next 10 years.

At same time, if I remember correctly, the same document stated that alternate day delivery would save $75 million a year. We already have a solution. I am not saying we need a single solution, but this shows that there are ways to do something. This is not the only one, and we should be careful.

We are not proposing that it be this way everywhere. However, there are ways to take action. It is important that seniors receive the home delivery services of a letter every other day rather than have none at all. We have to take a look at the major difference between the two options.

There are also opportunities to consider. For example, I live in a building where there are a number of apartments. Two years ago, Canada Post offered to provide us with parcel boxes. The idea was that the letter carrier who delivered letters could also deliver small parcels and even fairly large parcels. People could thus receive parcels at the same time as letters. However, that was not done. We had to call to request the parcel box, but we never received it. I assume that would be much more efficient.

The letter carrier currently deliver letters, and someone else comes and delivers parcels two or three hours later. These are not large parcels, but rather small parcels. However, this could be done in a single operation. So savings can be made in this area.

A little earlier we talked about cities such as Halifax that have an urban area that is different from the rural areas. We did not look at the details of the solutions to be considered.

In conclusion, I would like to add to what Ms. Gagnon said on this point. The Hon. Jane Philpott (Minister of Health) recently focused on the need for home care. However, you cannot simultaneously encourage home care and reduce services.

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

We have been told this several times. The question may not be pleasant to ask or to hear, but I am nevertheless going to ask it.

Seniors, retirees, and pre-retirees are not at home 24 hours a day. Based on my public service experience, because I was previously a mayor, seniors want to stay home, but they do not want to be isolated at home.

10:50 a.m.

Revenue and Tax Committee Representative, Association québécoise de défense des droits des personnes retraitées et préretraitées

Claude Godbout

You are right.

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

We want to use certain means to remove them from their isolation. We also want to reduce travel for people who require care. That is the purpose of home care. Seniors do not necessarily want to be categorized as seniors, particularly in this context of cuts. They want to go out, get their groceries, or go shopping.

I am entirely in favour of having them stay at home, but when you say that letter carriers meet all these needs, I find that a bit vague. Explain to me the connection between the letter carrier's role and keeping people at home.

10:50 a.m.

President, Association québécoise de défense des droits des personnes retraitées et préretraitées

Judith Gagnon

You are entirely right in saying that not all seniors stay at home and are trapped there. However, the fact remains that some of them are because they suffer from chronic illness and are older or less able to get out.

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Yes, but the keyword here is "some". So we are not talking about all seniors.

10:50 a.m.

President, Association québécoise de défense des droits des personnes retraitées et préretraitées

Judith Gagnon

Yes, you are right.

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

We talked about a medical certificate, which may not be the ideal solution. I am not here to judge solutions but rather to come up with potential solutions. We are talking about clarifying needs so that people can qualify and continue receiving their mail over a certain period of time. However, some seniors are happy to go to their mailbox. That gives them an opportunity to take a walk.

Could these kinds of solutions be exploratory?

10:50 a.m.

President, Association québécoise de défense des droits des personnes retraitées et préretraitées

Judith Gagnon

Yes, that could be a solution, but not with medical certification. I think that is unacceptable. We are afraid that might create various classes of seniors. It must be understood that we are all aging. At some point, it will be our turn, and we will become more vulnerable.

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

I have only 30 seconds left, but you may speak in response to other questions.

Your position is that home delivery should be offered to everyone. Ideally, that would be your solution.

Am I putting words into your mouth?

10:50 a.m.

President, Association québécoise de défense des droits des personnes retraitées et préretraitées

Judith Gagnon

Something like that, sir.

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Regardless of the cost—

10:50 a.m.

President, Association québécoise de défense des droits des personnes retraitées et préretraitées

Judith Gagnon

Yes, but—

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

—and the service would be nationally subsidized.

10:50 a.m.

President, Association québécoise de défense des droits des personnes retraitées et préretraitées

Judith Gagnon

Adjustments could be made. As Mr. Godbout said earlier, it would be possible not to deliver every day.

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

You would be somewhat amenable to that.

10:50 a.m.

President, Association québécoise de défense des droits des personnes retraitées et préretraitées

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

All right.

Thank you very much.

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Merci beaucoup.

Mr. McCauley, you're up for seven minutes.

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Thanks for joining us today, and thank you very much for your volunteer work and advocacy on behalf of seniors and the disabled.

Mr. Collomb d'Eyrames, what a fantastic idea you had about the specifications for filling out the forms for Canada Post for weekly home delivery, rather than having them fill out the form and getting a doctor's note, providing what they currently have, whether it's for handicapped parking access or something like that. It's a wonderful solution. That's the big reason why we come out: to hear these ideas. Thank you very much. I was very pleased to get that. I'm going to steal your idea later on.

One of the things we've heard about—and I'll ask this of all of you—is that we've is that there will be anywhere from $750 million to potentially $1.2 billion in losses a year if things don't change with Canada Post, or it does not continue to become more self-sufficient. That, of course, is money that's taken out of other services, such as home care and medicare.

Do you believe that's the way to go? That money has to come from somewhere, and eventually it comes from cuts to services, whether for the elderly or the disabled. I know it's a difficult question. That's not a solution. Do you think we need to find other ways to find this money?

10:50 a.m.

Director General, Regroupement des organismes de personnes handicapées de la région 03

Olivier Collomb d’Eyrames

With regard to your first question, I have been working with persons with disabilities in Quebec for 12 years, and we have been dealing with austerity measures for 12 years. We are told that savings can be made at the bottom of the ladder, with the most vulnerable individuals. And yet costs continue to rise. The money is there, since payrolls constantly increase. You are telling us about choices, but a business normally tries to find internal optimization measures. I do not know the structure or number of managers in the organization. I know nothing about IT contracts, which may not be good.

The fact that Canada Post is making the internal effort—

10:55 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Is it fair to say that we should look to Canada Post to address their issue rather than looking elsewhere?

10:55 a.m.

Director General, Regroupement des organismes de personnes handicapées de la région 03

Olivier Collomb d’Eyrames

Yes, first they have to set their house in order internally before cutting positions.

10:55 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Is that fair for [Inaudible--Editor]?

10:55 a.m.

Director General, Regroupement des organismes de personnes handicapées de la région 03