Evidence of meeting #42 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mail.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Bonjour à tous. Thank you to the witnesses for being here this morning. I was raised in the east, but my Clarke name is from Vancouver. My father was born here, so I'm very proud to be here.
I'm the new official opposition critic for public works and procurement. I've been trying to get into the pace of the work, so bear with me if I'm a little bit lost, but I think it will be all right.
My first question is for you, Madam Huberman. Do you think your members in the future will need more or fewer services from Canada Post?
9:25 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Surrey Board of Trade
According to the survey we put out, our members are still using Canada Pos, but not as much. I would say about 90% of the respondents indicated that they have transferred all of their invoicing, their billing procedures, and a lot of their communication procedures to electronic components.
As I mentioned before, reduced service, but needed service, would be needed by our members.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Okay.
Madam Stern, my wife is an anthropologist, so I'm happy to meet you this morning. I have a quick question for you, with a more in-depth question later.
You said that we should move back to postal banking. I didn't know we had it.
9:25 a.m.
Assistant Professor, Department of Sociology and Anthropology, Simon Fraser University
Apparently we had a postal bank into the 1960s.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Okay. Thank you very much. It's in the record now.
You talked about symbolism, and I agree with you. I think Canada Post is very important as a national symbol. I like the fact that in the small village there is a Canadian flag because of Canada Post. But if we reduced services from five days to two or three days, which is one of the solutions being put forward right now, do you think that would impact this national symbolism?
9:25 a.m.
Assistant Professor, Department of Sociology and Anthropology, Simon Fraser University
No, I don't, as long as it continues to be universal and there continues to be Canada Post trucks with the Canada Post logo on them. I read in the report some suggestion about wrapping them with advertising, which I thought was a horrendous way to dilute the brand. I don't see a problem with reduced service to three or four days a week, as long as it continues to be universal.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Okay. That's great to know.
I have the same question for you, Mr. Armstrong. You talked more about the symbolism in terms of the provision of state services. Do you think reducing the number of days would impact this kind of universal-service approach?
9:25 a.m.
National Director, Pacific Region, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
I think that would have a horribly detrimental effect on the universal approach, and I don't think it's necessary. Canada Post has been financially viable, as I said, for well over two decades, and that's while they've handed over $1.5 billion to the public purse in taxes and dividends since 1991.
They're making a lot of profit right now on parcel delivery and ad mail. They've done that because there's improved productivity from the union. They've been able to reduce their staff. We recently agreed to more changes in our collective agreement that would allow them greater productivity and increased revenues through parcel delivery and ad mail.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
That brings me to a question for you. I'm sorry to interrupt.
In Quebec City our committee met with one of your colleagues, I think, from your union, and if I'm right, he seemed to be saying that Canada Post said that a $700-million deficit is what is going to happen. Do you believe that there will be a $700-million deficit from here until 2026?
9:30 a.m.
National Director, Pacific Region, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Are you talking from our pension plan or from Canada Post in general?
9:30 a.m.
An hon. member
Revenues.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
[Inaudible—Editor] that there might be, if the status quo remains, a $700-million deficit by 2026.
9:30 a.m.
National Director, Pacific Region, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Well, Canada Post has a history of under-predicting their revenues. They were predicting great losses some time back, which proved to be incorrect.
Based on the current projections, I don't think that's going to be the case. Again, Canada Post, in just the first two quarters of this year, posted record profits, higher than the last 10 years. Canada Post is well on the way to making money again this year. Parcel delivery is going up and up. Also, I think we have a lot of proposals, including postal banking, expanding broadband services, etc., that would give Canadians more access and therefore more ways of improving revenues and volumes for Canada Post.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Okay, but for your union, what do you agree with in terms of the five points presented by Canada Post?
9:30 a.m.
National Director, Pacific Region, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
We don't agree with any of them, actually. We think it's wrong-headed to increase prices while reducing services. That's not a good marketing plan for any business.
Also, Canada Post is a public service, as I mentioned in my earlier comments. We're here to unite the country. Canada is not just the large urban centres along the 49th parallel. We have a vast land, and at Canada Post we've been able to deliver efficiently, profitably, and sustainably for well over two decades now. I see no reason why, and the union sees no reason why, we can't continue with that. Again, we have some good solutions for bringing in revenues to ensure that happens.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
During this committee's hearings, a lot of mayors complained that Canada Post did not consult them about the community mailboxes. What kind of consultation or discussion has been going on between you and the direction at Canada Post? For your union, for example, were they talking with you about the upcoming changes and the future they see for Canada Post?
9:30 a.m.
National Director, Pacific Region, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Well, they didn't consult with Canadians, and they didn't consult with governments or municipalities, and they certainly didn't consult with us. The five-point plan came as a complete surprise when it was announced in December 2013. We had no idea. We learned about it from the news.
We are willing and able to sit down with Canada Post and we have some good ideas to work out ways to improve the future. We just went through negotiations for our collective agreement with that in mind, so if Canada Post wants to have a dialogue with us, we'd be happy to do so.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you very much.
Ms. Malcolmson, welcome to our committee. You have seven minutes.
October 17th, 2016 / 9:30 a.m.
NDP
Sheila Malcolmson NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the taxi driver who eventually got me here.
Thanks to all of you for presenting, and thanks in particular to the postal workers, who deliver an awful lot of mail on behalf of members of Parliament. With our newsletters and everything, we send you a big load, I know.
Mr. Armstrong, I'd like to ask you a couple of questions. Can you talk a bit more about the impacts of the proposal to do away with the postage stamp price approach for delivering the post? What does that do to rural and remote areas when we end up charging more for delivering over a longer distance?
9:30 a.m.
National Director, Pacific Region, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
I think that's a further attack on rural communities. It would just exacerbate the urban-rural divide that already exists. Folks who live in rural communities often don't choose to do so. They were born there and they have to work there. To have to pay more money because of where you live is going to cause hardship for folks.
Increasing stamp prices, etc., for people in rural communities is going to cause some financial difficulty. It is certainly going to affect businesses by adding higher costs and reducing their bottom line. I'll leave it at that.
9:30 a.m.
NDP
Sheila Malcolmson NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Keeping on the rural community theme, Ms. Stern, can I ask you to comment on a phenomenon in my own riding and on Vancouver Island? We've had even the credit unions pull out of banking in remote areas. Even in just the last year, people have lost their banking service. Can you talk a bit more about the ability of postal banking to fill that service gap?
9:30 a.m.
Assistant Professor, Department of Sociology and Anthropology, Simon Fraser University
Yes. I've had experience working in two small communities that had postal service, but no banks. One is Cobalt, Ontario, and the other is the Inuit community of Ulukhaktok in the Northwest Territories. If there were banking available through the post office in these two places, then it would greatly ease the burden on people to get on with the day-to-day business of life. They look forward to the mail arriving, but they really have a great deal of difficulty getting their banking done, and these places don't have good broadband access.
In Cobalt, Ontario, the population is aging, and even if they had broadband access, they wouldn't feel comfortable with it. They would prefer to deal face to face with a clerk.
9:35 a.m.
NDP
Sheila Malcolmson NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
I'm hearing that a lot. The irony of Canada's population hitting this big aging bubble just at the time when we're looking at decreasing mail delivery and also decreasing access to banking services, especially in rural areas, is hard to take. Yes, I hear from people that they're not going to go online to do this stuff.
I'll switch back to Mr. Armstrong. Could you talk a bit more about the precarious work that your workforce is experiencing with more contracting out and more short-term and insecure work? What impact is that having on our local economy with spending power and the employees' ability to commit to communities?
9:35 a.m.
National Director, Pacific Region, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Well, if you don't have money in your pocket as disposable income, then you're not going to be contributing to the local economy. Without secure jobs, you're not going to be able to get mortgages or loans from banks, and you're not going to buy goods and services, etc. That's why it's important that you have an institution like Canada Post that provides good-paying, family-supporting jobs with benefits in the communities, because we contribute to those communities.
The rural communities especially have been hard hit, as you know, in recent years with reductions in mining and with other environmental issues, because a lot of those communities rely on forestry, fishing, and mining, etc., and they've lost a lot of income that way.
It's important that the government use its vast network. Canada Post is the largest retail, logistics, and delivery network in the country. Canada Post and the government can use that to make sure the economy stays strong and is stimulated in rural communities. That's why we have proposals around postal banking, as has been mentioned. Many places have lost their banking, and they don't have access to the Internet. Some people say that you can just do banking online, but if you live in a community like Sayward, which is an hour north of Campbell River, they're on dial-up. They don't have a bank. I was talking to one of our members there recently and she has to do all her banking through an ATM, and they're charging $5 a shot there to use those machines.
If you don't have the Internet, then you're not going to have any access to this wonderful banking system that will still exist when all the branches have closed down. There is a post office in every community, and we could certainly be supplying extra services along those lines and helping to support the economy of each community, wherever they are.