Evidence of meeting #43 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was service.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
The mayor of Montreal is flamboyant and very proactive. He is proposing a reform of the Canada Post Corporation Act that would make it mandatory for Canada Post to consult the cities. Do you think it's a good idea? Are you in favour of the idea as a city councillor of Edmonton?
Councillor, City of Edmonton
Absolutely, but we have to do this with an evidentiary-based approach. This means we have to fully understand the books first. Then, we can have an intelligent conversation around what we're going to do next. You can't just talk about it. You have to base it on what's happening on the ground now, what it's costing, what you're doing. I'm just talking about a straightforward business model here.
The urban centres are in desperate need, to be quite frank, of support, especially in the inner cores.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you.
Has the installation of community mailboxes in Edmonton caused problems, as it has in Montreal? In Montreal, some mailboxes froze in winter. In addition, some mailboxes needed to be replaced two, three or four times because they were poorly located and took up the entire sidewalk. There were many similar stories.
Councillor, City of Edmonton
The primary complaint has always been location, location, location. I've been in construction most of my life. The mailboxes, in and of themselves, are installed, generally, pretty well, but it's always been about why you put it here and whether it is appropriate here. It is kind of like cellphone towers.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Ms. Kennedy, as you know, during the Trente Glorieuses, western societies were very lucky because their GDP grew continuously. For the past 40 years, it has been an open secret that, despite our reluctance, cuts need to be made, even if we don't necessarily say so.
I see that Canada Post's 2015 annual report mentions a reduction of the salaries and benefits of new employees in particular. I understand that, for the workers, it may seem deplorable. That said, most people I meet don't have benefits, pensions, and so on.
Nevertheless, do think Canada Post workers have a long way to go, meaning they must accept certain measures that would reduce their benefits somewhat for the greater good of society?
As an Individual
I'm not sure how to answer that. It isn't supposed to be about a race to the bottom. You should be able to provide a good living to folks who are doing a good job for you and providing a service and not think about how little you can pay them before they start fleeing. You're already seeing that. The way they've restructured some of the payments, as you've referred to, has changed over time, and some people have said that it isn't worth it.
It can be a very dangerous job. I know about people who've been injured delivering mail to the community mailboxes because the ice and snow haven't been cleared. There are issues there. These aren't necessarily safe locations just because it's a group mailbox on a city boulevard that has been put in place. That information, I'm sure, has been made available to you as well. In terms of saying whether they are making too much money, or if they would be willing to take less—this is almost what I hear you saying—I don't think you're going to have a yes on that one.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
I'm not saying that, sorry, Madam Kennedy. What I'm saying is that we are in a society where each sector is cutting. We are not talking about drastically disposing of the workers of Canada Post or their salaries, but everyone in Canada has to make an effort. Do you think the workers of Canada Post should accept to make an effort? Maybe it's too much right now. I don't know. Do you think they have a step to take, as all Canadians do?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Hopefully, Madam Kennedy will be able to answer that in the next intervention, which is Ms. Duncan for seven minutes.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Not on my time, that question....
Thank you very much, both of you. This is really valuable testimony.
I'll just have to call you Councillor Nickel, because I have to pay you respect.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Another order of government....
Mr. Nickel, I really appreciated the way you put it in your presentation. You said it should be a matter of opportunity, not cost.
Councillor, City of Edmonton
Governments all over, we have so much capacity to deliver better service if we can change management's attitude toward its delivery.
I'm German. Management, the worker, and the governance board have to work together toward profitability. It's not people or profits. It's people and management working toward profitability.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
We are not talking about a business here. We are talking about a crown corporation that serves a public good. Even the report by the task force says right at the beginning, “it differs from for-profit private-sector corporations in that its primary mandate is one of public service.” Yet I look at the briefs outlining the proposals, and none of them are opportunities. They are all just cutting what that public service is.
I'd like to hear from Mr. Nickel on additional things, maybe partnerships with municipalities, potentially, to deliver services, or maybe even provincial or federal.
I am also interested in hearing from Ms. Kennedy about other opportunity costs. We are hearing a lot about the potential for banking. Even if we don't get into the loans, there is a strong potential for basic bill-paying and cheque-cashing, especially in rural communities.
Mr. Nickel, you shared with me that this is in fact happening a bit in some of the postal areas. I'd like to hear more about the opportunities so that we can continue this public service.
Councillor, City of Edmonton
Let's just put it this way. We could draw an analogy to the police. It's about boots on the street to deliver the most effective value, when it comes to walking, knowing your neighbourhoods, and so on. Instead of having an individual such as a bylaw inspector walk through, looking for potholes, checking on infrastructure, and watching the job sites, if the postal worker was part of a value-added contract, which the city could compensate for—as I said, I don't believe anything should be free—there could be some sort of arrangement. We already have a person walking the beat. It's a simple question of creating an app, taking a picture, and sending it to our network. Then there is a reduction in cost, because there is an efficiency driven into the system.
Having that person there is just one example. Another example would be delivering pharmaceuticals to seniors in their homes. We are trying to keep seniors in their homes. The question of trying to add better service to them directly, and reduce social service costs at the provincial level, has equal merit.
On the loan side, my new deputy manager of operations used to be VP with Canada Post. We had a good discussion about Canada Post giving out credit cards for online purchases—up in the territories, for example—basically acting as kind of a quasi-bank. You can't buy anything online without a credit card, so that's what they have been doing out there, which is very innovative and creative, and it works. The small transactional cost there could also be covered, and you could make a little money doing that. What's wrong with that?
As an Individual
The document that I provided has a listing of some of these ideas that you're referring to, and I think that probably some of the greatest assets we have are those long-term, dedicated, skilled employees who understand and who have further ideas on how the work that they're doing every day can contribute and what can be added to what they're doing. The reason that we have long-term, dedicated, skilled employees is because they are compensated in a way that makes them stay at Canada Post, and I think that's important to note.
The situation right now in Canada and in other places, as well.... I have one daughter who's working in construction and she was laid off. She took a cut in pay. Her boyfriend works at the temp agency and sometimes there's no work. He goes there every day, but he doesn't necessarily get sent out. These are the ways that our young people are moving into the future, in that kind of environment.
Some of the greatest assets you have at Canada Post are all of those long-term employees. Those people are there, and they're going to stay there. They care about their jobs and they want to do things to keep those jobs viable. There's the letter carrier alert. Some lady hasn't cleared her mail for some time and the letter carrier wonders, “What's going on with this elderly woman that lives here alone? Is she okay?” They stop and have conversations with the elderly who are isolated in their communities, and it may be the only conversation they have with somebody else for some time.
These are all important things in our social fabric that we have within the city of Edmonton and within our country, as well. You have to give some weight to that.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
There are proposals that there be alternate delivery. We already have a problem in our country with the growing amount of precarious work and an increasing amount of part-time work. Would some of these opportunities—for example, some of the ideas Mr. Nickel is proposing—potentially ensure that it is full-time work? Would there be a potential that we're going to lose a lot of the posties if it becomes just a part-time job?
As an Individual
Without a doubt. You have to also look at this as a place where women have the same pay as men, and that's an important factor. The full-time job aspect is very important. Add those things in there if you think that we can gain in some way with the services, but definitely full time and every day.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you very much.
Mr. Whelan, you have seven minutes, please.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Thank you very much.
It's interesting to talk about some new opportunities for using the retail and real estate of Canada Post to try to generate revenue. I am wondering, Mr. Nickel, in the case of this beautification project that you're involved with in Edmonton, you've reduced the head count down to one. Have you compensated Canada Post for that, or is there a way for Canada Post to monetize that benefit?
Councillor, City of Edmonton
Canada Post, to their generosity, has done this as a volunteer program. They go door to door, and they go out and they nominate people with beautiful front yards, but they've done this out of their own goodwill.
Let's turn it around and say that it was something beyond that, something that was of tangible value to the city for infrastructure, reporting on job sites that, let's say, don't have fencing up or things like that. If there was a monitoring function added to the Canada Post job description, then I think you should be compensated for that and there should be a value to that.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Would the city be prepared? Do you think that urban centres would be prepared...?
Councillor, City of Edmonton
I would be prepared, but that is a question for council to answer. I'm only here as a citizen. I'm not here as a city councillor.