Evidence of meeting #46 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rural.
President, Saskatchewan Branch, Canadian Postmasters and Assistants Association
No, I don't. As Canadians, we deserve equal service availability regardless of where we live.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Okay. In urban Canada, we still have some door-to-door delivery that's actually door to door, and we have community mailboxes, which clearly isn't door to door. We have delivery to the ground floors of apartment buildings, which many people have told us they consider just as good as door-to-door delivery.
We have rural routes, where people have mailboxes at the end of their long driveways, but many people consider that as good as door-to-door delivery; it's on their own property. Then we have general delivery in terms of many of the people you represent. They don't have door-to-door service at all. It's very clear that they go to the post office to get their mail.
Are you suggesting that we should restore rural delivery to a door-to-door service in rural Canada?
President, Saskatchewan Branch, Canadian Postmasters and Assistants Association
No. I believe that if we maintain things the way they are, that's acceptable. We haven't had rural route delivery across rural Canada for many, many years. I don't see an issue with that. We are very content to drive to our communities, whether it be 10 kilometres or.... As a farmer myself—
President, Saskatchewan Branch, Canadian Postmasters and Assistants Association
Absolutely.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
You're not calling for rural delivery to be the same as urban.
President, Saskatchewan Branch, Canadian Postmasters and Assistants Association
No.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
In urban areas, I must say, the testimony we've heard is that people really aren't as interested in having postal banking. When we talk to people in rural areas, they talk about the lack of these services. Don't you think there could be a different model in at least the types of services that are offered?
I have a Service Canada office in my town, but I know that a lot of people don't. Why are you against having a different type of service offering in rural areas, whereby rural post offices offer more than might be offered in urban and suburban, where they already have private enterprise offerings?
President, Saskatchewan Branch, Canadian Postmasters and Assistants Association
As far as the postal banking goes, yes, it would be very welcome in rural communities that do not have a banking facility available. In the urban centres, we have to consider that we do have the inner-city people who do not have a bank account and do go to the payday lenders of the world. I believe it's just as viable in our urban centres to have postal banking as it would be in the rural areas.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Just to broaden the question, Mr. McGregor and Ms. Friars, I asked the question of Ms. Krahenbil about whether or not she considered the different types of services to be door to door or not. We talk about door-to-door service, but in old age homes or seniors assisted living facilities where there's a single point, do you consider that as good as door-to-door service, or do you consider that more akin to the community mailbox?
Coordinator, Moose Jaw & District Senior Citizens Association Inc.
I would consider that as good as door to door.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Fair enough.
When we're talking about door to door, in your minds we're also talking about delivery to the ground floor.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
We had previous testimony today that 71% of people have a community mailbox type of delivery. When I'm talking to you, I think it sounds more like 30% of people have a community mailbox delivery, and some 60% have something that you consider as good as door to door. Also, in the rural context, people in rural Canada seem to be satisfied with their postal service even though they have to drive to get it.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Okay. Fair enough.
I just want to try to understand, because when we read the Canada Post report they seem to be discuss these things in a way that's not the same as the way people appreciate it. In terms of this type of communication style, do you think it's been helping the Canada Post brand? When Canada Post denigrates the level of service it's providing or talks about its financial instability, do you think that hurts the Canada Post brand?
Ms. Sanderson.
President, Saskatoon Local, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
I appreciate the question. I think that how Canada Post has represented itself is very.... In our experience, what we've seen as the representation of Canada Post is very much done by people who have been appointed by a previous Conservative government, and it is definitely a Conservative agenda that we've seen in the past. I think under the current dynamic of Canada Post that what we're seeing and the information that Canada Post is putting out there to the public is very much designed to create a problem that doesn't exist. I believe it doesn't exist.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Well, thank you, Ms. Sanderson. I think when we look at the financials, even if they're not as bad as they say, they are still pretty bad because there is about a $1.4-billion gap in contributions to the pensions in the past year. I think we talked about the pension plan. You're still looking at about a $8-billion gap from what's required. So I think there is more that needs to be done, and the committee wants to make sure that pensions are solvent.
Ms. Friars and Mr. McGregor, you talked about home delivery for seniors in communities that are served by community mailboxes. I'm not sure if you are aware of it, but there is a program that allows people with disabilities to get access on a once-a-week basis through an application process. Do you have any thoughts on that? Should it be twice a week? Is it not good enough? Do you have any concerns about this specialized service for the elderly and disabled that Canada Post provides to make sure they get their mail to their door?
Coordinator, Moose Jaw & District Senior Citizens Association Inc.
I guess, yes, the people who I spoke to do not feel that once a week is enough. They would like to see the same as what every person receives, which is a day-to-day service.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you very much.
We will now go to our second intervention. It will be Mr. Clarke. If you are not bilingual, I would suggest you put on your interpretation headsets and turn to channel two.
Mr. Clarke, you have the floor for seven minutes.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Sanderson, in recent days, this committee has travelled to several provinces and the Northwest Territories. Most colleagues from your labour union seemed to say that the deficit forecasts were not accurate. If I understand correctly, you also believe the forecasts are not accurate.
President, Saskatoon Local, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
I would agree with that statement, definitely. I heard Mr. Whalen mention something about the solvency of our pension. I think when we're talking about the pension, the reporting requirement for Canada Post pensions is that we report based on a solvency deficit. Of course, there's a deficit there, but I don't think that's an accurate representation of a going-forward pension and what we actually know is there. In terms of solvency for those people who don't understand it—and I take it most of you do—a going-forward pension is the reality of our pension fund at the time, and it's healthy, and it has a surplus. A solvency is how we're required to report, as a federal employees, that pension.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Sorry to interrupt you, but I have a number of questions to ask you.
I was referring to the deficit expected according to Canada Post. The deficit would be $750 million by 2026. I was referring to that deficit. I assume that, like your colleagues in the rest of Canada, you don't think this forecast is accurate.
How did the task force reach the same conclusion as Canada Post? Canada Post may have vested interests, but how do you think the task force was able to obtain the same result?
President, Saskatoon Local, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Well, I've read through the many pages of the task force review, and I've looked at all of that, and I suppose that the numbers that have been provided to the task force would have been confirmed as accurate. When we're looking at the finances of Canada Post, I know that in the past studies were done where Canada Post released information and said, “Hey listen, if we don't do something right now, we're going to be in a situation where we're losing tons of money,” and the scare tactics that were put out there to the public saying, “You know what? Your taxes are going to be increased because you're going to have to pay for Canada Post.”
That was not a reality. It has not been a reality. For 18 of the last 20 years, Canada Post has posted profits. Last year alone there was $99 million of profit from Canada Post. One of the years they didn't post a profit, and I'd like to mention that Canada Post lost a major settlement with one of the bargaining units within Canada Post because they weren't paying men and women the same amount of money for work they were performing, which was the exact same type of work.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you.
I understand that the problem between you and the management arises from the fact that the basic premises are not the same. You don't believe in the same analyses and statistics.
There was talk of a deficit of $750 million by 2026. Canada Post's 2015 annual report says that, under the current collective agreement, the employees hired after March 1, 2015, will receive lower wages, will be entitled to fewer annual sick days and will have job security only after 10 years of service.
I can understand why you're firmly opposed to a wage reduction, and that makes sense. Nobody wants to see their wage reduced. In your presentation, you said that, in the future, everyone will need to make efforts. Would it be important to accept fewer annual sick days since all Canadians are currently making efforts? Is your union ready to accept certain measures in addition to the wage reductions?