Government Operations Committee on Nov. 21st, 2016

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Colleagues, we are a couple of minutes early, but I think we'll start now.

Colleagues, I'm not sure how long the opening statements from our witnesses will be, but I would like to get a full round of questions in. That would be the full round of seven minutes, five minutes, and the last three-minute intervention by Mr. Weir. Our officials have indicated they're willing to stay a few extra moments. Ladies and gentlemen, that complete round normally takes about 50 minutes.

With that brief introduction, we welcome officials from the Privy Council Office and the Public Service Commission to discuss supplementary estimates (B) with us today. My understanding is that we have opening statements from both organizations.

First up is the Privy Council Office. Monsieur Dupont, are you making the opening statement?

[Serge Dupont, Deputy Clerk, Privy Council, Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, and Deputy Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Privy Council Office]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Please proceed.

[Serge Dupont]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, and members of the committee.

Thank you for inviting the Privy Council Office to review our 2016-17 supplementary estimates (B). I'm accompanied by Ms. Kami Ramcharan, assistant deputy minister, corporate services branch, and chief financial officer. My introductory remarks will be brief so that we may turn quickly to the questions of the committee.

As you know, the mandate of PCO is to provide professional non-partisan advice and support to the Prime Minister and ministers within his portfolio, and to support the effective operation of cabinet. In these estimates PCO is seeking spending authority of $12.3 million for 2016-17, supplementary to $147.6 million of authorities to date.

Budget 2016 identified a number of needs and initiatives that require investments in the PCO's capacity to support the Prime Minister and the government in the delivery of their agenda.

Some of the additional spending authorities, supporting new and modern information technology infrastructure and security platforms, were approved through supplementary estimates (A).

The resources sought through supplementary estimates (B) will enable PCO to deliver on other priorities.

We hope to have enhanced engagement with provinces and territories, as well as municipalities and indigenous groups, requiring added resources in the Intergovernmental Affairs Secretariat of PCO, serving the Prime Minister as Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

These resources will also enable us to support democratic reform and the Minister of Democratic Institutions.

We are also trying to actively engage with youth through a Youth Secretariat, serving the Prime Minister as Minister for Youth.

In addition, we want to focus on outcomes and results for Canadians, notably through a new Results and Delivery Unit, housed in PCO.

Moreover, we want to focus on a more open, transparent and merit-based appointments policy, requiring added resources in our Senior Personnel Secretariat.

Lastly, we seek to address responsiveness to evolving threats to our national security by bolstering the capacity under the national security advisor to the Prime Minister.

Mr. Chair, I could elaborate a bit on each of the items I just referred to, but perhaps in the interest of time and your interest in moving quickly to the questions, as the opening remarks have been circulated as a reference, I'm quite happy to move to the questions after the statement by my colleague.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much. I appreciate your co-operation.

Mr. Thom, your opening statement, please.

[Gerry Thom, Acting Senior Vice-President, Policy and Corporate Affairs, Public Service Commission]

Mr. Chair, honourable members, thank you.

I am accompanied today by Philip Morton, chief financial officer and director general of Finance and Administration.

As you may know, the mandate of the Public Service Commission is to promote and safeguard merit-based appointments and to protect the non-partisan nature of the public service.

We report independently to Parliament on the overall health of the staffing system through our annual report.

We expect our annual report for 2015-16 will be tabled in the House of Commons in the coming days. Once we have confirmation of tabling, we would be very pleased to come back to discuss the report should the committee wish us to do so.

Today we've been invited to discuss the supplementary estimates (B).

Let me just say at the outset that PSC is not seeking approval for new funding. We have sufficient resources to deliver on our mandate, and we will spend only what is required.

For 2016-17 the supplementary estimates (B) included one transfer of $252,000 from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency to the Public Service Commission for the use of the public service resourcing system.

The public service resourcing system is the electronic recruitment system that powers the federal government's primary job portal, known as jobs.gc.ca. It supports the implementation of the Public Service Employment Act and other government priorities by making it possible to manage large volumes of applications from Canadians from across the country.

Just to give you an idea of the kind of numbers we are talking about, last year nearly 8,500 internal and external job advertisements were posted on the jobs.gc.ca site. These job postings resulted in over three-quarters of a million applications.

Through electronic screening tools the public service resourcing system helps hiring managers manage high volumes of applicants and target candidates who meet their selected merit criteria. Departments and agencies contribute to the cost of operating this system, usually through permanent transfers. The only exceptions are the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and Parks Canada, which are named in schedule V of the Financial Administration Act, as separate agencies, but make appointments in accordance with the Public Service Employment Act, and they use the public service resourcing system. As such, the supplementary estimates are routinely used by the PSC to finalize those transfers for those two organizations.

However, for 2016-17, the transfer from Parks Canada was processed through the annual reference level update and will be in place for three years until 2018-19, so only the Canadian Food Inspection Agency transfer is included in this year's supplementary estimates. As such, the amount of the transfer has been reduced from $504,000 in 2015-16 to $252,000 for 2016-17.

Moving forward, it's clear that we are in an era of great change within the public service.

We value our partnerships with departments and agencies, and will continue to work with them as well as bargaining agents and stakeholders to support public service renewal. We will also continue to look for ways to modernize and improve our recruitment system and programs for the benefit of all Canadians.

I hope this information is useful, and I am happy to respond to any questions you may have. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Colleagues, just to remind you, we have our officials with us for one hour.

We will start with a seven-minute round of questions.

Madam Shanahan, you're first up.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the panel for being here.

Continuing on my quest to understand the relationship between the budget, the main estimates, and the supplementary estimates, let me tackle the first question, which has to do with the Privy Council Office. In budget 2016 we saw an allocation of $49 million that was made to “ensure that the department has the resources required to effectively support the Government’s agenda, as well as to strengthen security and make required investments in lifecycle updates to systems and buildings”.

At this time you're requesting an amount of either $10.8 million in the supplementary estimates, or according to your brief, it seems to be moving numbers to $12.3 million.

I want to understand the relationship between those two or three numbers. How much of the proposed $49 million do you plan to use this year, and how will you use it? Perhaps you can walk us through some of the items, and break down the amounts to the items you listed in your brief.

[Serge Dupont]

I appreciate the question and I appreciate the challenge in reconciling all these numbers many times. Even the officials sometimes will require a bit of a briefing to get it right.

First, to clarify the $10.8 million versus $12.3 million, most of that difference includes the benefits that are a statutory item attached to the compensation of staff. The $10.8 million is before those benefits, and the $12.3 million is after those benefits.

The $49 million—and I might have said “billion”, but I think it's “million” in this case—

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

A million, a billion....

[Serge Dupont]

It's a hazard sometimes at PCO.

PCO did ask for $49 million in budget 2016, which was accorded, and $23.9 million came through supplementary estimates (A), which provided for a large portion of those additional resources related to IT modernization in particular and to e-cabinet.

In the second round of supplementary estimates of $12.3 million—it is still part of the $49 million—we are looking for the items that I went through, the various additions to capacity for the Privy Council Office in intergovernmental affairs, results and delivery, appointments process, and so forth. By the end of the year through supplementary estimates (A), (B), and (C), the total of the $49 million will be reconciled. We expect of course to be spending the large majority of those funds.

In some instances, you'll be aware that the Privy Council Office, like other government departments, can go to the Treasury Board and request a reprofiling of some of the monies to future years, in some cases because it's taken time to hire new staff and so forth. That's a routine matter where we can be told yes or no, but that process takes place with the Treasury Board.

By the end of the year, through supplementary estimates (A), (B), and (C), the $49 million is secured through authorization of Parliament.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Excellent. If I understand you correctly, you're working through that $49 million that was accorded with the items that you outlined in your brief here on page two or three.

[Serge Dupont]

That's correct.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Let's go through some of those items.

I've been doing some more reading on the mandate and the work of the Privy Council. I truly appreciate that it's non-partisan support to the Prime Minister and to the government of the day, but that must have its challenges as well, as you work through the different tasks that you have before you.

Can you give me a sense of whether you have a wider mandate or a larger scope of activities now than you did in the recent past? That will help me to understand how the spending is being used.

[Serge Dupont]

I'd be pleased to.

Let's take a few examples. The Prime Minister is not only the Prime Minister; he's also Minister for Youth and Minister for Intergovernmental Affairs. As Minister for Youth, he has also asked for the establishment of the youth council. He has asked for the development of a youth service initiative that was also laid out in the budget, and he is looking overall for PCO to coordinate youth policy across government. That requires a small secretariat to be established within PCO to support that activity.

The Prime Minister is Minister for Intergovernmental Affairs, and certainly, in this day and age, whether one is speaking about infrastructure, housing, or climate change, all of these issues require more and more collaborative work with the provinces. There have already been two first ministers' meetings over the past year. Another one is planned to occur before the end of the year. The level of activity in intergovernmental affairs is higher than it has been over the last number of years; therefore, some supplementary resources have been sought for this purpose.

In terms of appointments and Governor in Council appointments, this government has promoted an approach to appointments to boards, crown corporations, and commissions, for both full-time and part-time appointments, that involves a merit-based, competitive, open process. That has meant opening these processes to have a wider reach regarding applications. We've received 4,000 applications to date for numerous positions in the public sector writ large. Implementing this policy has required supplementary resources in our senior personnel secretariat.

Those are the kinds of changes resulting from the Prime Minister's or the government's decision to emphasize new functions and to reach out further to provinces or to potential candidates for certain positions in order to support their agenda. The Privy Council Office's resources have to reflect those incremental commitments by the Prime Minister and the government.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mr. McCauley, go ahead for seven minutes, please.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks for being with us today.

I want to get a bit of follow-up on Ms. Shanahan's commentary. In the supplementary estimates (B), there was $10.8 million, which you're now saying is $12 million. Did we hear that right?

[Serge Dupont]

Yes, it's $12.3 million because one adds $1.3 million, which is a statutory item that is automatically added.

Kami, EBP stands for...?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

That was for the benefit plan.

[Kami Ramcharan, Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Privy Council Office]

Yes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Give me a rundown of some of the things that were part of that, this extra $10.8 million plus the $1.3 million.

You mentioned supplementary resources for the Governor in Council appointments. How much was that?

I'll be honest; I have a great amount of concern. We saw this government spend $400,000 just for a website to take resumés for Senate applications. I'm wondering how much more is being spent when you talk about supplementary resources for the GIC.

[Serge Dupont]

Let me just see here.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Can you provide a broad idea of what the $10.8 million is for?

[Serge Dupont]

I mentioned some of the items, but, for example, the most significant item is the new results and delivery unit, which represents $3.3 million. That's about 15 people.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

How much of that is consulting fees and how much of that is new employees?