Government Operations Committee on Nov. 21st, 2016

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Sure.

You also mentioned bolstering the capacity under the national security adviser. Does that essentially involve hiring staff? What's the supplementary estimate doing in that area?

[Serge Dupont]

It's an addition of, roughly, six full-time equivalents. This is so we can be somewhat more nimble in addressing new threats related to cybersecurity or in the domain of counterterrorism. In other domains, not only in Canada but internationally, there is greater focus and greater activity, and it does require added attention under the national security adviser.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I appreciate that it's a security adviser to the Prime Minister, but beyond that, is there a reason to have these staff in the PCO as opposed to, say, in the Department of Public Safety or in the Department of National Defence?

[Serge Dupont]

In the Government of Canada, the vast majority of the resources devoted to national security are housed in the different agencies, whether it's the RCMP, National Defence, and so forth. In the overall scheme of things, the resources in the Privy Council are relatively modest. They are really intended to ensure that these entities function in a coordinated manner, that there are the proper exchanges of information, that the Prime Minister is properly briefed, and therefore, that we have a full government approach to national security.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Mr. Grewal, you have seven minutes, please.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you to our witnesses for coming today.

I want to continue on with my colleague's question on the national security adviser to the Prime Minister. How much of the total is being spent on that?

[Serge Dupont]

What is requested here is an amount of $0.6 million. Actually, I apologize; for six full-time equivalents, it's $3.7 million.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

Just as a curiosity question, we're asking for supplementary money to bolster the capacity under the national security adviser. Has this happened in other years, as well? Has some of the funding for national security come through supplementary estimates?

[Serge Dupont]

I don't have the record.

I could assure you that, if a budget supplemented resources for the national security adviser to the Prime Minister, that would have been reflected in supplementary estimates. I would imagine that, given the greater focus on national security over the last number of years, there would have been additions to those resources over the last number of years.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

A lot of the supplementary money is being used for communication: interdepartmental communication or intergovernmental communication. Is that building upon something that didn't exist in previous administrations?

[Serge Dupont]

I'm not sure that I made reference to any additional resources for interdepartmental communications. I did make reference to intergovernmental communications.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Yes.

[Serge Dupont]

The intergovernmental secretariat in the Privy Council Office has had various levels of staff over the years, depending on the type of activity or engagement that took place with provinces and territories. Of course, when one goes back 20 years, it was a virtual department. It was a very large organization, but it was reduced over time. In the last budget, the government indicated an intention to provide some increment to the resources, given the willingness to work with provinces closely on a number of priorities and to have greater activity, notably, among first ministers.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

You mentioned a focus on outcomes and results for Canadians, notably through a new results and delivery unit. It seems like we're just adding another level of tracking for something. Can you explain this a little bit?

[Serge Dupont]

The government was very intent on ensuring that across departments and agencies there was a very clear focus on outcomes for Canadians, that we weren't simply thinking about activity, about creating a new program that would appear to respond to a need, but where it would actually be difficult to track results in the actual benefit to Canadians.

The Prime Minister and the government are really quite intent on ensuring that as we're allocating results to new purposes, we try to identify, indeed, at the outset what it is we're trying to accomplish, what variables we could use, what data we could rely upon to see whether we're making a difference, how we track that, and how we report on that to the government, to Parliament, and to the Canadian public, so that the action of the government becomes more concrete in terms of how it is affecting individual Canadians.

In order to drive that, it was decided to establish this unit in the Privy Council Office. One of my colleagues testified before this committee and said there had always been in the Treasury Board Secretariat an effort to identify results and to find some metrics.

The difference, in this case, is that those conversations not only engage officers at Treasury Board and program officers in individual departments but they are also actually engaging the ministers and the Prime Minister in some detailed conversation about what it is exactly we're trying to accomplish through certain initiatives. That's the result the delivery unit is trying to permeate across government.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Ms. Ratansi.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I have a quick question.

You were talking about resources that are being provided to results and increasing the policy capacity. Could you elaborate on what that means for intergovernmental affairs, and what is meant by enhancing the capacity?

[Serge Dupont]

It means that, very concretely, as one is working to prepare and to deliver a first ministers' meeting, one does need some.... I'm the deputy minister of intergovernmental affairs as well, so I'm well aware of the fact that now you do have to rely on people in order to have the contacts with the provinces and territories to know their positions on certain issues.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Are you spending more on this because we are doing so much more consultation, and getting the first ministers together because it didn't happen for 10 years?

[Serge Dupont]

I'm saying that there have been two first ministers' meetings over the past year. Another one is planned before the end of this calendar year, and that does require significant engagement.

There is also greater interest on the part of the Prime Minister as Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs to have a view of what kind of intergovernmental discussions are taking place across different portfolios in government, and for him to be advised and be kept up to speed on that. That means there will have to be some individuals in the PCO whose job it will be to track that, analyze it, and advise on it.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

We'll go now to our five-minute rounds.

Mr. Clarke, you have five minutes.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank all the witnesses for being with us today. We appreciate it very much.

I will start with you, Mr. Dupont. The supplementary estimates requested by the Privy Council are in the order of $12 million, is that correct?

[Serge Dupont]

Yes.