Evidence of meeting #69 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was office.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9 a.m.
Ombudsman and Executive Director, Ombudsman, Integrity and Resolution Office, Department of Health
That's what it....
9 a.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
That, to me, is troublesome. I think at least one of the purposes of the act was to create an environment where employees would not have that fear. How do we reconcile this? Is this a suggestion that the act is not working, or that it needs to be tweaked?
9 a.m.
Ombudsman and Executive Director, Ombudsman, Integrity and Resolution Office, Department of Health
What I can tell you is that my office has been very proactive in positioning this office with services, including the internal disclosure services, to be a trusted place where employees can actually raise and discuss those issues. An effective awareness strategy is making sure we combine promotional tools and materials so that they understand and there's an outreach base there. Employees see an opportunity to see a face to discuss the disclosure. They see the whole regime or wrongdoing process with a higher level of comfort and trust.
9 a.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Do you know if that document has been provided to our committee, Mr. Chair?
9 a.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Is that easily accessible? Are you able to provide that to us?
9 a.m.
Ombudsman and Executive Director, Ombudsman, Integrity and Resolution Office, Department of Health
What document?
9 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
If you could provide that to the clerk for distribution, I would appreciate that.
9 a.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
That's great. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
There's that study, and maybe we won't get into the study because you'll provide it and we'll all have a chance to look at it and that might answer any questions I have.
I want to look at the data we have about cases and inquiries coming forward. The problem with the data is that if it showed zero action taken on any of the cases, or zero inquiries, it could mean the act is a failure, but it could also mean it's a success. The numbers don't really tell us something. It might mean everybody is too scared to come forward, so the act is a failure, or it might mean everybody has changed their behaviour and there's no more wrongdoing because the act is such a success.
9 a.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
This is what I'm saying. The numbers themselves don't necessarily tell us. I think we need to get into the attitudes of the employees and what is preventing them from coming forward. If they aren't, perhaps it's because—and I'm just speculating—they feel their complaints aren't seriously addressed, or no action ever results anyway so what's the point of raising your head and being a target for possible reprisal. That's what I'm getting at.
Thank you for your time. Hopefully that study will elaborate on that as well.
9 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you very much, Mr. Peterson.
Mr. Clarke, you have seven minutes, s'il vous plaît.
9 a.m.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would also like to thank Mr. Bégin and Ms. Ferlatte for being with us this morning.
First, I would like to know what if any relationship you have with the Treasury Board Secretariat. Mr. Trottier, who is responsible for the governance, planning and policy sector, was here Tuesday morning. What relationship do you have with him?
9 a.m.
Ombudsman and Executive Director, Ombudsman, Integrity and Resolution Office, Department of Health
Mr. Trottier works for the Treasury Board Secretariat. It offers departments support for the implementation of the act.
9 a.m.
Conservative
9 a.m.
Ombudsman and Executive Director, Ombudsman, Integrity and Resolution Office, Department of Health
There is an interdepartmental community, which includes the senior officers, Treasury Board, and a representative of the commissioner, which holds discussions in particular about the issues and the procedure in place. It is actually a working group that looks at ways to give us the necessary tools to manage disclosures.
9:05 a.m.
Carole Ferlatte Manager, Ombudsman, Integrity and Resolution Office, Department of Health
Let me clarify something. We also have another resource. A Treasury Board lawyer gives us specific advice on cases that fall into grey areas.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
To what extent are your offices interrelated? Do you report directly to the secretariat or are you independent of it?
9:05 a.m.
Ombudsman and Executive Director, Ombudsman, Integrity and Resolution Office, Department of Health
As a senior officer, I report directly to the deputy minister of Health Canada.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
So you cannot get orders from Mr. Trottier's office, is that correct?
9:05 a.m.
Ombudsman and Executive Director, Ombudsman, Integrity and Resolution Office, Department of Health
No, it is separate from Health Canada.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
In general, you are the ombudsman for Health Canada, but your office is also responsible for complaints related to the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act. Can you tell us what percentage of your time you spend on matters related to those disclosures? How much time to you devote to all the work related to the act?
9:05 a.m.
Ombudsman and Executive Director, Ombudsman, Integrity and Resolution Office, Department of Health
I would point out that Ms. Ferlatte joined my office as a manager after I arrived in February 2016. For my part, given all the other issues, I spend from 10% to 15% of my time on that.
