Evidence of meeting #73 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was procurement.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Welcome, everyone.
I just want to touch upon the non-disclosure agreement signed regarding the jets. Were you involved in that process at all?
9:15 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Marine and Defence Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I'm happy to answer the question.
I think what the member is referring to is a read-in process.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I'm referring to the lifetime ban on discussing that. There were 145 people in the public service, spread out among DND and other departments, and there is a lifetime ban on discussing the project. It's the NDA.
9:15 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Marine and Defence Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I'm happy to describe it, if you'll allow me to answer—
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I'm not looking for a description. I'm sorry, but we're short of time. Were you involved in it?
9:15 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Marine and Defence Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Understood, but it's just that it's not a non-disclosure agreement. It's called being read in. It is an agreement that is signed by officials when they're going to be party to highly sensitive official information or secret information.
For many of our files, the Department of National Defence requires it, even if you have a security clearance, which I do. For specific files, if you're going to be privy to sensitive information, you have to sign an agreement saying that you have been read in, you will abide by the security procedures, and you will respect the classification of information. It's very important. I should say that you are also read out at the end of that.
To answer your question, yes, I was.
9:15 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Marine and Defence Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I answered that. Yes, I was read in.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Okay.
Have you been involved with one of these before, in which you've been read in for life?
9:15 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Marine and Defence Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Read in for life—no, that's never happened to me, but I have been read in before on various projects—
9:15 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Marine and Defence Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
No, as I described, sir, you are read out.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Regarding the Super Hornet purchases—and anyone can correct me if I'm wrong—I think there were 145 public servants spread out through DND and the public service who were told to sign something that prevented them from discussing the project for life. You are now saying that you're read out when you're done with that.
9:15 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Marine and Defence Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I'd be happy to describe how this works.
People are read in and they are privy to confidential information, which they may never disclose. Once they are read out, that means that security classification doesn't apply. In this case, the project has been made public, so there's a great deal of information that is now made public and in the public domain, and it can be shared.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Is it correct to say that they've been banned for life from discussing it?
9:20 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Marine and Defence Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Not at all. It's akin to—
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
So you're not read out then if you're banned for life. When you receive your last rites, I guess you can be read out.
9:20 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Marine and Defence Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Not at all. It's akin to solicitor-client privilege. I'm a lawyer by training, and some of the things that clients have told me over the years, I may never disclose. It's similar to that.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Have you seen this before in other procurement deals where people have been muzzled for life from discussing it?
9:20 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Marine and Defence Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I have seen read-in processes where people are privy to confidential information that they may never disclose for reasons of the integrity—
9:20 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Marine and Defence Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
People never disclose by reason of the sensitive nature, yes. That's quite common.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
It is very common. Alan Williams, who I think used to do your job, or a very similar—
9:20 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Marine and Defence Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Not my job, but the job at National Defence.
