Government Operations Committee on May 4th, 2017

[Kami Ramcharan]

I think that for the next few years we have that. We have about $400,000 ongoing, but we will have roughly $4 million per year in terms of upgrading our workspaces.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Wow.

I want to get back very quickly to the Senate issue. Again, it's a million dollars, and I assume that we spent the same amount last year.

Very quickly on the website issue, I recall this as quite a gas last year when we found out that it was $400,000. I questioned that. I got quite and enthusiastic response that it was a great amount of savings because they were using existing templates. I was kind of stunned: $400,000 was a great savings. You say we're going to spend more on that website this year?

Look at the Senate website. It's your typical bland government website with a bunch of other links. We're not talking about some massive incredible display. It's just a simple website. We spent $400,000, and you're saying we are spending more money on it again this year?

[Kami Ramcharan]

IT is one of those things that can be somewhat misleading. When we talk about a website, the people who apply to the website put in their personal information. We have to make sure that information is secure. What we would have done in order to stand up the website last year was to put forward a pilot project in terms of looking at how we make sure the website's there. Yes, it's not a complicated website, but what's behind that website is somewhat more complicated.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

So it would be no different from any of our other government websites that are receiving resumés, taxes, or any information? It's nothing special.

[Kami Ramcharan]

But we will use the existing platform. What we need to do is work with our partners to do this. We don't say that it's $400,000. We go out and get cost estimates to do it. What we're going to be doing this upcoming year on that website is just making sure that it is robust, because it was a pilot website that we launched last year. We wanted to do the initial design, make sure it worked, and then make sure that it will continue to be updated.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

How is it a pilot website? It was just a simple website. It only went up about six or seven months ago to accept applications. It had a couple of other links.

If you look at the website—and I encourage you to do so—you see that it's a very simple website. How is it that we spent $400,000 on making it more for robustness when it's...? If you go through all the government websites, there are a lot more things there that require robustness. This was just a very simple website. Again, maybe I'm missing something, but it seems very bizarre that we would spend almost half a million dollars to spruce up an existing template. It's not like we created it from scratch. All the behind-the-scenes stuff and the protection were already there.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Unfortunately, you have used up your time in asking the question.

We'll now go to Mr. Weir for seven minutes.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I would like to continue that line of questioning. I want to clarify whether the money spent on this website is part of the million dollars for the new Senate appointment process.

[Kami Ramcharan]

Last year, we would have received $1.4 million, and part of that $1.4 million would have been the initial pilot project for the Senate website. What we need to do is put it on a more robust platform, so we will be using resources out of the $1 million that we're receiving in our mains to do that.

If I could just respond, Madam Chair, to the question, it seems simple, but we have to really ensure the security and the privacy of the information. We take that as very significant. We need to make sure that information is housed in the appropriate place and managed in the appropriate way.

That's what causes a little bit more complexity on the costing. It's not just the front face; it's what's behind the information.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Should we expect that this Senate appointment process is going to continue to cost $1 million per year going forward? Or once this website is sorted out and once the vacancies are filled, should we expect it to taper off?

[Kami Ramcharan]

The million dollars isn't just for the website. It's supporting the advisory committees. Those advisory committees are set up in the provinces where there are vacancies. That will be something that's ongoing. We do have resources that are into the future, but once the website is up and running, then it will just be the maintenance of the website that would be needed, not the increasing of the functionality or improving the security.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Should we anticipate about a million dollars every year going forward for the Senate process?

[Kami Ramcharan]

Yes, absolutely.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Even when the vacancies are filled, that infrastructure and those committees will continue to be maintained?

[Kami Ramcharan]

Yes.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Would there be any possibility of using that personnel to do other work within PCO if there weren't Senate vacancies?

[Kami Ramcharan]

Absolutely. Whenever there is downtime for any position, people are reassigned or provide support to other areas that might be seeing an increase in workload. It's not like they just wait until they have the Senate appointment and are working on it. There are a lot of other activities that are under way within the department.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Okay.

Mr. McCauley also asked about a few expenditures of PCO in support of the Prime Minister. I would like to ask if you can indicate to us the overall budget of the PMO itself for 2017-18 and what it's expected to be for the next few years.

[Kami Ramcharan]

The budget of the Prime Minister is similar to what has.... I'm sorry. I'm just going to find my page. It has been the same amount for the past number of years. It's $10.5 million per year. It's expected to be the same.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Okay. That's helpful.

Can you also tell us how much is being spent on this new results and delivery unit within PCO?

[Kami Ramcharan]

That's $3.3 million.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Okay. Thanks very much.

I would like to come back to Mr. Friday on the question I asked before about balancing the focus in LEAN: saving time versus really spending the time to provide help and support to whistle-blowers, who have often had extremely difficult experiences.

[Joe Friday]

One of the challenges—or perhaps guiding principles—that we've identified is balancing the rigour and completeness of our work with timeliness. We're quite conscious of the fact that we are doing more than simply processing files that do not have human faces or human consequences.

That does form, I can assure you, part of our discussions around LEAN, and it informs our continuing discussion concerning our service standards. Are they realistic? Are they achievable when we are looking at goals that are more than simply closing cases? Yet that still is an important part of our work....

Timeliness also has, in our world, an emotional component as well. Many people who come to us have been through a number of other processes or have been waiting to come to us for a long period of time. When they muster up the courage—if I can use that expression—to come to us, they're hoping, in many cases, for a timely result. I can assure you that we are, on an ongoing and constant basis, aware of the need to balance those potentially competing interests.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Do you have any kind of estimate or a sense of how much your office is spending on the LEAN process itself?

[Joe Friday]

I do not have that information.

I'm not sure if my colleague has it.