Evidence of meeting #12 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was masks.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Chair, we had a number of issues depending on the lot. We had some where the elastics were an issue. Then, as time wore on, filtration became the more common problem. We are still in negotiation and have paused all deliveries from the supplier. That it's an ongoing discussion is all I can say at this stage.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
The minister said that we were going to use those masks but for non-N95 use. Are we going to continue to pay full price for those masks, even though they're not being used for what we paid for? It's just like the eight million masks that we spoke about earlier in the meeting.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Chair, as I said, we are in ongoing discussions with the company about how this will wrap up.
Conservative
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Chair, I'm going from memory here, but I would say it was early April.
Arianne, do you have a better recollection of the date?
Conservative
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We'll have to get back to you, Mr. Chair. I don't want to guess.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It was before May 1, for sure. April would be my guess, but I will have to confirm the details.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
But it was very, very recent.
Mr. Chair, how much time do I have, if any?
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
What is it costing us to test all of these masks? We're paying top price or more for masks that can't be used for what we're buying them for.
Vice-President, Public Health Agency of Canada
I don't have a dollar amount. We're using the National Research Council's metrology laboratory to do the testing. There has been a certain amount of purchasing of equipment, TSI machines—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
In that case, I would ask that you supply a dollar amount in writing and give that answer to our clerk so she can distribute it to all of our members.
We'll now go to Mr. Kusmierczyk for four minutes, please.
Mr. Kusmierczyk, can you hear us?
Mr. Kusmierczyk, going once, twice, three times. Either Mr. MacKinnon, Mr. Drouin or Mr. Weiler, would one of you care to step in?
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
I'll step in, Mr. Chair, just in case Mr. Kusmierczyk will take my time afterwards.
Mr. Matthews, thank you for appearing before this committee once again in less than a month. We certainly appreciate your time.
You've touched on a really important point in the discussion with regards to the COVID-19 supply council, talking about the availability of raw material.
I'm wondering if PSPC is having some conversations with ISED, and if any Canadian companies are thinking about the way we design N95 masks and use that particular raw material and whether or not there's a way to reduce that, so that we can ensure the proper sourcing of these N95 masks.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Certainly, different approaches are always under consideration. The one I would highlight for N95 is more around sterilization and reuse. These are such a precious commodity at the moment, is there not a way to reuse them? It happens now, but we're looking to expand the way in which they can be reused to have less waste, as it's a precious good.
I can't speak to whether other discussions are under way about alternatives to N95, but that would be more in the realm of ISED.
Liberal
Vice-President, Public Health Agency of Canada
Yes, having been at ISED, I know that the National Research Council has a challenge for made-in-Canada filtration material for the manufacture of N95 respirators and surgical masks. That challenge closed recently. There has been a call to Canadian industry to see if they can develop alternatives. It's absolutely on top of people's minds.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Right.
Mr. Kusmierczyk, did you want to jump in now, or do you want me to go on?
Liberal
Irek Kusmierczyk Liberal Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
No, thank you very much. I really do appreciate it.
How much time do I have?
Liberal
Irek Kusmierczyk Liberal Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Mr. Dagenais, you mentioned in your remarks that in the bulk procurement process, the products are distributed through an allocation approach approved by the federal, provincial and territorial ministers. Can you go into a little detail on how that allocation process works?
Vice-President, Public Health Agency of Canada
Yes, after the ministers agree, essentially we push out proactively 80% of what we receive on a per capita basis, and the NESS withholds 20%, which we allocate when provinces make calls on this. We call them “requests for assistance”. We've had 57 requests for assistance so far. Essentially, it's designed to recognize the fact that the current pandemic isn't hitting all provinces the same, so maybe a straight per capita approach is not appropriate.