Government Operations Committee on May 15th, 2020

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

The final two minutes will go first to Monsieur Barsalou-Duval.

You have two minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question has to do with procurement. For years, our governments' ideologies have led them to get supplies abroad, where it is less expensive. They tell themselves that it is no big deal and that there is no risk involved. However, we are having a really hard time getting supplies right now.

Will these practices be subject to an in-depth review? Will the fact that the government thinks that procurement abroad is risk-free be called into question? In times of crisis, we do not even know whether these countries will supply us first or whether they will supply themselves first.

[Bill Matthews]

There are a couple of things I would share on this front. You're already seeing a live rethink. It's clear that a high percentage of the PPE that is in demand comes from outside the country and particularly out of China, so you saw a country that was the main supplier for a lot of countries being pressed in terms of its manufacturing capability.

You've already seen the domestic stand-up starts in Canada. I've mentioned hand sanitizer, face shields, gowns, ventilators and masks to come. In that group of domestic suppliers and manufacturers, I think you will see a core doing this on a temporary basis, just until things come back to normal, and others making it a more permanent endeavour. I would say the rethink has already started, because you're seeing some of this capacity that will stay with us.

Hence, and we've talked about it a few times already, there's the 10-year deal with Medicom for masks. That's because there's a desire to have an ongoing presence for Canadian-supplied masks for the future, not just to get us through this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Green, your final intervention is for two minutes, please.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Ms. Thornton, what was the national supply standard for the quantity of N95 masks across the national strategic stockpile prior to the decision to close the Regina warehouse and the other ones, versus afterward?

[Sally Thornton]

Mr. Chair, our stockpiled amounts were basically geared toward responding to a couple of incidents within Canada. They weren't actually geared toward supplying something for every Canadian—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

What was the number? I just need the number, Ms. Thornton.

[Sally Thornton]

I have no number.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Okay. What I would like to request is that you provide us in writing with the number for the quantity of N95 masks for the national supply standard. That will allow us to determine whether the disposal was in keeping with the management system you have.

[Sally Thornton]

We will provide you with the information about the disposal.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

You have one minute, Mr. Green, if you care to utilize it.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

No, I think I've overstayed my minutes as it is. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

We will excuse our witnesses. Mr. Matthews, thank you for appearing with your officials. Madam Thornton, thank you for appearing here with your witnesses. Your testimony has been informative, as always, and very helpful. You are excused.

Colleagues, we will give them a moment to leave the meeting and then we will continue immediately with our committee business. I remind you all that it is in public.

We will suspend for a moment and come back with our committee. Thank you all.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

We will reconvene. Thank you, colleagues.

We have about 15 minutes left. I want to deal with future witnesses and future meetings. As you know, next week we do not have a meeting on Monday because of Victoria Day. We will have a meeting on Friday, May 22, and the Minister of Health, Minister Hajdu, will be with us at that time.

I'm going to ask Raphaëlle in just a moment to go forward with the proposed witness lists for the remaining meetings, but first I have a comment.

Taking a look at the meetings yet to come, I notice that there are a number of witnesses committee members have suggested who have provided testimony at other standing committees, and that's fine. I'm just hoping we can avoid duplication of testimony. If witnesses who have appeared at the finance committee or at other committees are coming to testify before us, as long as they are providing new testimony, that's great, but I would hate to think that we would be just rehashing the same old testimony that has been heard before.

That's my only comment on that matter.

Raphaëlle, could you please give us a little update on some of the witnesses and some of the meetings on your work plan that are yet to come before we adjourn Parliament for the summer?

[Raphaëlle Deraspe, Committee Researcher]

Certainly, Mr. Chair.

The committee has approved the ninth meeting, which will be on May 25, on cybersecurity. After that, in the work plan that Ryan and I have proposed, there would be a 10th meeting on the oversight of government activities.

I want to point out to members that both the PBO and the interim auditor general appeared before FINA this week, this past Tuesday. However, a new AG has been appointed this week.

Then for the 11th meeting, we have representatives from the Government of Alberta and also a non-profit organization. The 12th meeting would be on industry groups. The last meeting we have proposed would be the 13th, and it would be on procurement and benefits, with two ministers, Minister Anand and Minister Hussen.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you, Raphaëlle.

Colleagues, I believe you have all received copies of the proposed work plan from Raphaëlle. I will invite commentary now if you think we're missing a witness or if there are some witnesses we do not need to hear from because of duplication.

Steve, I'm not sure if you have information on this or not, but we will officially be reconvened in Parliament on May 25. I'm not sure if there's any thought being given to whether or not Parliament will continue until the end of our normal scheduled parliamentary calendar or if there are any amendments to that calendar.

Colleagues, first, if you have a question or comment or suggestion, raise your hand, and we will try to take you in order.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I don't know, Tom, if you were asking me if I had information about how long Parliament's going to go. I don't know. I want an answer to that, obviously.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thanks for sharing.

Mr. Drouin, I see you and our clerk.

We will go first to Paul, our clerk, before we go to Francis and then Mrs. Block.

[The Clerk]

Mr. McCauley, Mrs. Block, and then Mr. Drouin are the three I have noticed on the speaking list.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Excellent. Thank you for that, because I did not notice which order those were in.

We will go to Mr. McCauley first.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

We can go to Mr. Drouin first, but my thought is that I want to avoid duplication, as you commented. I have been watching and reading the blues of a lot of the other committees. There are a lot of good questions, but then stonewalling or no answers. As much as I want to avoid duplication, it's more important that Canadians get answers to a lot of these questions we're asking.

The only other thought I would have on the lineup we have coming is that perhaps Minister Anand should appear at the same meeting as Minister HajduMinister Hajdu. What we saw again today is a perfect example. We ask a valid question, and it gets punted to another department, and the answer is “Well, that's not my department.” We saw it previously when Minister Anand was here and passed the buck on to Health Canada or PHAC. We asked PHAC today. They passed the buck on to Health Canada.

I think it's time to get them both in the same room to end this pointing at someone who's not here and delaying very important answers to very important questions that are being posed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Just so I'm clear, Mr. McCauley, are you suggesting that Minister Anand and Minister Hajdu appear in the same meeting? Are you suggesting they appear on the same panel at the same time, or just one after the other?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It could be the same panel at the same time or one after the other or, when Minister Anand is here, the DM from Health Canada should be here.

Frankly, I'm getting tired of this. Again, we had Public Services and Procurement. We asked questions. We're told to ask PHAC. We have PHAC. We're told to ask Health. We say, “Well, you're part of Health.” We're told, “No, you should ask someone else.”

I hate to be cynical, because that's not my nature, but I'm starting to sense a real pattern here of their realizing, “Hey, the other people aren't in the room. Let's blame them and not answer the question.”

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Well, without getting into a debate, I'll first go to Mrs. Block, then Mr. Drouin and then Mr. MacKinnon.