Government Operations Committee on April 24th, 2020

[Bill Matthews]

I'm going to have to let Arianne answer the swab question if she can. If not, we can circle back.

On the mask question, we're seeing a range of prices for masks, Mr. Chair. When this crisis started, we were looking at about $1.20 a mask for orders early on. For more recent orders, you're seeing prices quoted up to $5 and $6 a mask for N95 respirators, and so the cost of a mask depends on when you placed an order, frankly, and when you had your arrangements in place.

Maybe I'll flip to Arianne to see if she can shed some light on the swabs.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

If the stockpile had been stocked up, we would have saved a lot of money as well. Is that what you're saying?

Ms. Reza.

[Arianne Reza, Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

On the swabs, this was the first batch of swabs from the supplier. We called the supplier, and they will be providing us with new swabs.

In the interim, we did have success in sterilizing them, just to provide an additional contingency to the Canadian health care system.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay. How much did it cost us to sterilize those swabs? Are the replacement ones coming at no charge?

[Arianne Reza]

The replacement ones are coming at no additional charge to Canada. I don't know the price of the sterilization. We'll come back with a written response.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Maybe you can come back to us.

Mr. Matthews, are there any examples of products that we bought besides the masks and the swabs that haven't met our standards?

[Bill Matthews]

They're the two that I'm aware of, Mr. Chair, and obviously, making sure that we buy goods that respect our standards is very important to us.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I realize it's very, very difficult and I'm not saying you specifically, but obviously, if you are buying items for Canada that are not appropriate, then I don't think taxpayers should be on the hook.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Mr. McCauley, you have only about 15 seconds.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay. Thanks very much then.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

We will now go to Mr. Drouin for six minutes.

Francis, you're up.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thought Mr. Jowhari would be going, but I'm happy to interject, unless Mr. Jowhari wanted to jump in.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Mr. Drouin, my speaking order has you, but you can certainly cede your time to anyone on the government side should you wish.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

That's fine. No, I'm happy to continue on my side, because we are at the start of the second round.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I'll go back on mute.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

That's correct.

I have to remind members that we have about 20 minutes left, after which time I will be suspending the meeting, excusing our witnesses, and we'll be going into the last 10 minutes of the meeting to discuss upcoming meetings and the work plan.

Twenty minutes will give us, I believe, about three more interventions: Mr. Drouin, Madam Vignola and Mr. Green.

Francis, let's start now.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to advise that we have been in discussion with Ms. May. If this is going to be the Liberals' last round, I would like to share about three minutes with Ms. May in the spirit of co-operation.

I have a couple of questions with regard to some of the barriers that may exist for companies that do want to sell into Canada. We know there's an approval process with Health Canada, which has to allow them to sell medical devices in Canada.

I just want to know, Mr. Matthews, whether your department, once they identify a Canadian company, encourages them to talk to Health Canada to allow them to sell, to get their special licence.

[Bill Matthews]

The member is quite right. There are licensing requirements when you're dealing with medical equipment, the MDE licence, and there are three aspects to it: manufacturing, distribution and importing. All three are important.

Through the outreach we've had with the Canadian industry and others, we've learned that there's an uneven understanding of some of those requirements, so when we're dealing with a potential supplier who does not either possess the required licence or is not sure how to go about it, we very quickly make links with Health Canada to allow them to facilitate that process to the extent they can. There is an accelerated process in place.

It is a world where there are different categories of licences. Category one, PPE, is the least complex, but it goes all the way up to something that's more complex like ventilators. You can understand that they would have a more complicated application process and evaluation process than something that's less complex. Putting them in touch with the right people on the regulation side is critical to helping them out.

As I said, we have some companies who've come in who already have a licence, understand the system very well and know exactly what to do, but we have others who are breaking new ground as they try to find their way into a new industry.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Are you aware of the different categories? For instance, we've often had discussions about visors. I know one company in my riding, Innovation Tools, got the licence fairly quickly, but I think what helped them is that they also worked with the local hospital to make sure that the model and the innovation they presented in those visors would meet the adequate need of the medical community. Is it harder to qualify for category one, category two, etc.?

[Bill Matthews]

The higher the category—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Mr. Matthews, please complete your response in less than 30 seconds. We want to go to Ms. May for three minutes after that.

[Bill Matthews]

I will do so, Mr. Chair.

The higher the level of category, the more complex it is, and the more steps and information are required. Most PPE would fall under the category one level, which is the most streamlined, but there are still some steps involved.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much, Mr. Matthews.

Madam May, welcome to our committee. It's good to virtually see you. You have three minutes.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you. I'm very happy to see you as well, Mr. Chair.

My first question is one at a higher level of analysis than we've been getting so far in the committee, and that is the lessons from SARS and that experience. We were supposed to be paying attention to making sure we had PPE and making sure we had stockpiles. Where was that primary responsibility lodged? Is it in the department that we're talking to today? Would it have been the Public Health Agency?

I ask the officials: Who was primarily responsible for making sure we didn't forget the experience of SARS?

[Bill Matthews]

Policy-type questions or levels of stockpile-type questions would fall squarely in the circles of Health Canada and the Public Health Agency of Canada. The role of this department is to actually go and procure, but we usually procure when we have a client who instructs us on just what it is they need.