Government Operations Committee on April 24th, 2020

[Bill Matthews]

There are a couple of aspects to that question, Mr. Chair.

In terms of how we're organized within PSPC, it's by product group. We would have a group that's dedicated to and has experts on masks or ventilators—pick your product—so there are little mini-teams. We have also hived off a specific group to look at the logistics. Obviously, buying things is one thing, but making sure they come back to Canada is another. We have a dedicated group that's doing the logistics part of it, which is an important role here as well.

In an ongoing dialogue with Canadian industry, our colleagues at ISED would start by identifying potential companies and looking at opportunity potential. Then when it's time to move on to exploring the contracts, we would get engaged to talk about their ability to produce—how quickly, what the products are—and the contracting would be more in our realm of responsibility.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Colleagues, we'll now go to two interventions of two and a half minutes each.

Madam Vignola, you are first up.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have a lot of questions to ask.

You said Air Canada and Cargojet were bringing in the medical equipment. Are there not other companies in Canada that could help them? I am thinking of Air Transat and WestJet.

Are Air Canada and Cargojet alone in bringing medical equipment into the country, and if so, why?

[Bill Matthews]

Thank you very much for your question.

For now, only Air Canada and Cargojet have been approved to operate flights between Shanghai and Canada. We are in discussions with other companies to help them obtain the necessary approval. We believe it is better to have more options. We are in the process of organizing that, but it takes time. At the same time, we are working with our team in China to help suppliers as well.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

Deloitte is an accounting services firm. I am trying to understand why it is responsible for logistics and coordination. If the government decided that Deloitte was in charge of logistics, why did it leave out Deloitte recently?

[Bill Matthews]

Thank you for your question.

Deloitte is an accounting services firm, that is true, but it also offers consulting services. To manage the crisis, we clearly need experts from outside the government.

However, Deloitte is not the only company responsible for logistics. We use the services of other companies, Boloré Logistics, for example, which specializes in transportation and warehousing. We use Deloitte to check the capacity of companies in China and to resolve some issues with regard to the arrival of goods at the warehouses.

It's not just Deloitte. We have Bolloré, who are absolute logistics experts with a good footprint in China.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Mr. Matthews, unfortunately we'll have to cut you off there.

As I mentioned earlier with the minister, should you have any answers that you feel you did not have adequate time to provide in the time allocated to you for those responses, I would ask that you complete your answers by sending a written response to the question through our clerk, and it will be distributed to the entire committee.

[Bill Matthews]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Our final intervention of two and a half minutes will come from Mr. Green.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Just as a reminder, I do have, at the appropriate time, a motion to put under Standing Order 108 as it relates to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

If I may, Mr. Green, you have only two and a half minutes for this intervention.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Can I do that now?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

You can certainly do it now if you wish, sir.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Is there a more appropriate time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

You'll have one more intervention of six minutes after this one. That would be your last opportunity.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'm not sure where we will be, so I'm just going to go ahead and put the motion. This is under Standing Order 108(1)(a), with respect to powers of standing committees. It states, in part:

Standing committees shall be severally empowered to examine and enquire into all such matters as may be referred to them by the House, to report from time to time, and except when the House otherwise orders, to send for persons, papers and records, to sit while the House is sitting, to sit during periods when the House stands adjourned, to sit jointly with other standing committees, to print from day to day such papers....

My motion has been placed as a notice of motion. I'm now putting it as a motion. I move, “That, in the context of its study of the government’s response to the COVID-19 Pandemic and pursuant to Standing Order 108(1)(a), the committee send for all briefing notes, memos and emails from senior officials, prepared for the Minister of Health, the President of the Public Health Agency of Canada, the Chief Medical Health Officer of Canada, and the Minister of Public Service and Procurement between 2010 and the present day, regarding the stockpiling, management, disposal and replenishment of medical equipment and supplies in the National Emergency Strategic Stockpile; that the committee receive the information no later than May 25, 2020; that matters of Cabinet confidence and national security be excluded from the request; and that any redactions to protect the privacy of Canadian citizens and permanent residents whose names and personal information may be included in the documents, as well as public servants who have been providing assistance on this matter, be made by the Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel of the House of Commons.”

Mr. Chair, you will note that a similar motion passed at the health committee on February 26, using the same provision under Standing Order108.

I just don't know that I'm going to get my six minutes next, so I'm going to put this now.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

If you're taking the speaking order, Mr. Clerk—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I should also note to my friends present that I did respectfully not put this while the minister was here, understanding the tight time constraints and the technical challenges that we had.

[The Clerk]

Mr. Chair, I believe your microphone is on mute.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Mr. McCauley, I think I saw your hand raised. Did you have something you wish to share with the committee?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I support Mr. Green's motion. I think anything, especially at this time, that's going to increase transparency of the entire issue is incredibly important. We need more openness and more transparency now more than ever. I fully support the intent of the motion, and I thank Mr. Green for bringing it forward.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Am I allowed to speak to the motion?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Yes, briefly if you can, Mr. Green, because following that I will be compelled to make a ruling on your motion.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

We've heard today that the minister has stated that her department officials have no role to play in the national emergency strategic stockpile. We've also heard public health experts suggest that there are going to be multiple waves potentially of COVID in future seasons.

My concern is that we're not adequately preparing now, particularly in the hypercompetitive purchasing environment, in replenishing our stockpile and preparing for the next wave. We should be looking at ways to share responsibility if we are responsible for the procurement and the logistics chain, right up to when they're being delivered and disposed of. I'm still to understand that under this ministry there is a responsibility for the distribution of goods before they expire, and I would like to have better information around that because there's been a lot of ambiguity around that, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you, Mr. Green.

I understand Mr. Drouin, you have something to add as well.