Government Operations Committee on April 30th, 2020

[Simon Kennedy]

Can I use this channel to speak in French or do I have to change channels? I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

You are.

[Simon Kennedy]

All right.

Maybe I didn't make it clear enough that companies can take more than one route. There are companies that already have production capacity and are able to sell their products and services. PSPC offers these companies the opportunity to register and offer their products. Approximately 20,000 companies have used the services of PSPC.

As far as we are concerned, we deal with companies that change their production to produce new health products. For example, some companies in the automotive sector are now making products for the health sector. We've received about 6,000 applications. We talked to each of those companies to see if they could easily pivot. It is important to know how quickly this can be done. We're continuing to discuss this.

I don't know if it's clearer now, but that's what we do with businesses.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Of the 26,000 applications, how many are from SMEs?

[Simon Kennedy]

There are quite a few SMEs, but I don't have the exact number. Companies of all sizes have applied. There are large companies, such as those in the automotive sector, for example, and there are smaller ones. We support both small businesses and large businesses.

You can't just give money or support to one type of business. I could give you several examples of SMEs that have received contracts as a result of our efforts.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Currently, are there mechanisms that allow you to verify that the funds are properly used by the companies that receive them?

[Simon Kennedy]

Yes, there are.

First, there are different kinds of mechanisms depending on the type of work the company does. There is the strategic innovation fund program, which allows for larger investments when the company needs to be innovative in order to change its type of production to meet a specific need.

The negotiations and the contract must be fairly detailed. Moreover, it is often external experts who validate contracts to ensure that everything is done correctly.

In the case of companies that have something fairly simple to sell, the contract is only for the purchase of these products. It's less complicated that way. Some conditions of the contracts have to be accepted before payment.

I think we do have the means to ensure that the money is well spent. We monitor its use strictly.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

As I said earlier, you identify companies and offer them financial support. If a company is not selected by PSPC, what happens in terms of financial support?

[Simon Kennedy]

The government can support businesses in a variety of ways.

For example, there are all the programs that the government has launched for businesses. There are also programs to support workers and businesses, but we are not necessarily the ones who manage them.

I'm talking about programs for the manufacture of products for the health sector. We do not support companies and we do not put out contracts without a clear arrangement that demonstrates that they can manufacture the products that we are talking about, such as doctors' gowns and everything else. It is not just a matter of giving money to all kinds of companies. The money goes directly to companies that can contribute to the war against COVID-19 with new products.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Green, I understand you're back online with us now. Do you have questions for Mr. Kennedy?

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

If anything could have gone wrong today, it did. Tom, I totally appreciate the situation you were in last week.

The game now for me is to keep my cool. One of the ways I'm going to do that is actually by offering up this round to my good friend, Paul Manly from the Green Party, and letting him fire away while I get settled in, because I'll be honest with you, I'm still a little frazzled.

Mr. Manly, if you have questions, I'm happy to share some time with you, and then I'll jump back in on the second round, assuming that we have one.

[Paul Manly, Green, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you for that, Mr. Green. I appreciate the time. I'm sorry to hear that you're having technical difficulties. It's nothing like me getting caught out on the phone in the middle of Parliament the other day, where that shot of me was less than flattering.

In the industry committee meeting, I brought up Taiwan and the use of masks there for citizens in general. My brother lives and works in Taiwan. Everybody gets a mask as part of a rationing: three masks a week. My sister-in-law never stopped working, and my brother stopped teaching for two weeks.

Taiwan was one of the top 10 countries affected by COVID-19 at the very beginning. They had their first presumptive case the same day as Canada did. Now they're 114th on the list. They've had 429 cases and six deaths. They're not testing very much. They test 2,600 people per million, compared to Canada where we're at 20,000 per million. On masks and hand sanitizer, there's hand sanitizer in front of every building and at every transit station, and people wear masks in public places.

Here in my riding, Harmac Pacific creates K10S pulp, which is used for surgical masks, and they're exporting to the United States. These are really basic paper masks. They're not like the N95 masks.

I wonder whether the government has explored getting somebody to manufacture those types of simple masks here with that type of paper, working with our local pulp mill, to ensure that we have masks for citizens so that we can get people back to work.

[Simon Kennedy]

The specific health guidance around whether to hand out masks broadly to the population, their use, and so on, would be from the health ministry, but we are certainly aware of the need for surgical masks, as well as N95 respirators and other kinds of face coverings. That is a focus for us on the industrial, made-in-Canada approach.

For example, we've been working with General Motors recently to produce a large volume weekly of these basic surgical masks. There are other companies that we're working with to produce both surgical masks and N95 respirators.

The short answer to the honourable member's question is that, absolutely, masks and respirators are a priority as part of our domestic scale-up. We're looking at those opportunities to build much greater domestic self-sufficiency in that area.

[Paul Manly, Green, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I have another constituent who's involved with a company called Medea Medical Products, and he has been contact with me for over a month. He got the company lined up with Buyandsell.

They're a Canadian company, but they manufacture in China and they manufacture N95 masks. He has found it very difficult to have communication and to get any uptick on getting masks into Canada from this company. This company and other companies I've heard from have been offering services and products, and some of them are just going straight out. We have a company here in town that's making the shields, and they're just providing them to our hospital and to our health care workers rather than going through the government system.

Is there a way that we can get this streamlined so that these companies can be more involved in this process with the federal government?

[Simon Kennedy]

As I said, we're working very hard to try to respond to every company that has written to us or has contacted us. We have a network of advisers across the country that are doing that.

On Buyandsell, I can't speak for my colleagues. That question would have to be directed to the Public Services and Procurement ministry, but I know they're working very hard, too, to reach out to people who have contacted them. They have had a much higher volume of people contact Buyandsell than we have had, but certainly we're making an effort.

I believe at this point we've contacted every firm that has reached out to us. We're tracking all of that to make sure that we circle back to companies that have reached out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Unfortunately, colleagues, we are out of time now. I want to thank Mr. Kennedy and Mr. Thompson for attending. You are both excused. Once again I am sure we'll be talking with you at a later date.

Colleagues, we are still in public. Our discussion for the next few minutes will be on the work plan which, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, has been sent to all of you. This is a revised work plan and it is hopefully going to be meeting your specifications that you gave our analysts last week. I'll open up the discussion now to see whether there are any other revisions that you think should be required or any new witnesses that you believe should be added to the witness list.

Mr. Drouin.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll just say a few comments.

On the fourth meeting, we have absolutely no issue with Mr. Purves and Ms. Santiago appearing on the issue of allocation of emergency benefits. The only comment I'll make is about the President of the Treasury Board appearing on that specific theme. You know that the public health emergency act has passed, and Treasury Board, while it does have a role, has a limited role to play. I'll defer to the committee. Do members absolutely want the President of the Treasury Board to appear sooner rather than later? We're happy to entertain the idea of him appearing in front of the committee, but he would probably have more to say on the issue of federal employees.

That's it from our side.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you, Francis.

Mr. McCauley.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Francis, when you say “later” what are thinking of? TBS is a two-pronged department, as the employer of the government but also the guys writing cheques. Do you think later at the end, or later as in two weeks from now?

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

No, we're fine with having the President of the Treasury Board. All we would ask is that perhaps we can combine that session with the issue of employees, specifically for the President of the Treasury Board.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Do one hour with him and one hour with Mr. Purves.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

And the others, yes, sure. It's just out of respect for you and the opposition. He may not have much to say on the allocation of benefits. He would have more to say on the issue of employees and how employees are engaged, as you know, because Treasury Board—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Yes, I can't speak for the others but I think that would be more important for me, personally.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay. Again it's up to the committee, but we can have him next week.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Sure, that works for me.

I don't know about Ms. Vignola and Mr. Green.