Government Operations Committee on March 8th, 2021

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

When I look at the motion before me, the issue is with regard to writing a letter to the minister asking her to attend the meeting on issues of supplementary (C)s.

When we look at the supplementary (C)s, the Canadian surface combatants are contained within that. Therefore, I see that as being related. Thus, I'm ruling that this is in order.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

On that, if I might politely suggest, Mr. Chair, that you simply turn to the clerk and ask him if things are going well with respect to scheduling the minister for her supplementary (C)s appearance, I think we could avoid a lot of nonsense here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

On the issue of the minister, I can tell you that we have tried to have the minister. We have addressed the issue in previous meetings. Mr. MacKinnon, a number of meetings ago we talked about sending a letter to the minister. You indicated then that you would discuss, as best you could, asking the minister to attend.

Our discussions with the minister are such that her attendance would be on a certain date. We asked if she could attend when we were not sitting and she could not, so my understanding of this letter is that it is putting that issue in writing.

With that said, perhaps the analyst would like to make a comment.

[Raphaëlle Deraspe, Committee Researcher]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As members will recall, they agreed to study the supplementary (C)s with the departmental results reports, which do have some elements linked to the national shipbuilding strategy.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you for that, Raphaëlle.

We will now go to Ms. Vignola.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I know that, like all ministers, the Minister is very busy. Nonetheless, I think it's important that we are able to speak with her so that she can shed light on some of the issues in the supplementary estimates (C).

I will probably be told to ask our colleagues to stop inviting her to appear before their committee. However, we live in a democracy. The role of every member, beyond his or her party, is to understand where the taxpayers' money is going, the money collected through taxes. To do that, it's important that we be free to ask questions of the people responsible, regardless of party.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Ms. Vignola.

Mr. Green, I saw that your hand was up. It went down for a second. I see Mr. Drouin, as well, but I will go to you first, Mr. Green.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I will, with integrity, share with you that I changed my mind and I put it back on, so I will cede the floor to Mr. Drouin. It wasn't a technical glitch. I changed my mind, so I'll go back on the speakers list after Mr. Drouin.

Thank you for that, though.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Mr. Drouin.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'm wondering, through you or through the clerk, if we've had other information as to whether the minister can attend before the date that she—I'm assuming—communicated to the clerk.

I'll agree with my colleague, Mr. MacKinnon, that we're just spinning our wheels here. We can write another letter but I would assume the answer will be the same.

On that, nothing is stopping members from asking questions about the supplementary (C)s on the date the minister has provided to this particular committee. We are only sitting for two weeks in March, and I think that's the issue here. If we were sitting for four weeks, it would be a lot easier to find scheduled time.

We're going to send a letter, that's the point. I'm assuming we're going to get the same answer, but hey, if that's what the committee wants to do, I'm okay. However, I will disagree with our strategy here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Drouin.

Mr. Green.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'll pick up where my friend left off.

I think if it's the will of this committee that we put it out, and if the minister continues to not make herself available, then that will be duly noted. I think that when a committee calls for a witness, whomever it may be, it's incumbent.... If it's the will of this committee that this is the direction we go in, the minister treating it as an administrative or scheduling inconvenience is not really our problem, quite frankly.

I'm ready to vote on this. If it's the case that the minister can't find the time to show up at the committee she is responsible for, on this particular issue, so be it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Green.

Mr. Paul-Hus, I believe you have the last hand up.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As I mentioned earlier, the motion very clearly includes enough information related to the topic we are discussing today. The Parliamentary Budget Officer has produced an excellent report. We have many questions about shipbuilding and how it fits into Public Services and Procurement Canada's 2019-20 departmental results report, which refers to shipbuilding-related costs.

Once again, the Minister did not find time to appear before the committee to answer questions about the report. It's simply a matter of inviting the minister nicely. As parliamentary secretary to the Minister, Mr. MacKinnon likes to speak on her behalf, but the fact remains that she is the Minister. So we would like her to appear before us to answer our questions, plain and simple.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Paul-Hus.

I see that Mr. MacKinnon's hand is up.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

She is indeed the Minister and she has already specifically shown that she is available. Her office is planning her appearance before the committee right now. We all look forward to hearing what she has to say.

I want to assure Mr. Paul-Hus and all my colleagues on the committee that the Minister has a very good handle on her files. So members will have to do their homework.

In my opinion, we should just go ahead with a vote.

Personally, I'm going to oppose this unnecessary, dilatory motion, which is only intended to cause the Minister some slight embarrassment. I will oppose the motion because the Minister has been very forthcoming, whether for our committee or other parliamentary committees. She will be more than happy to brief us on the supplementary estimates.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

I appreciate everyone's comments.

Seeing no more hands up, I am asking all those in favour of this motion to please raise their hands.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Paul Cardegna]

Mr. Chair, pursuant to the order adopted by the House in January, if a motion is not adopted unanimously or on division, it has to be done by recorded division. Do you wish me to call the roll?

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Yes, please do.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Chair, may I say something with regard to the motion?

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

We're actually in the vote, so I'm going to rule no, Mr. Dong.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

The only reason I'm asking for one minute to explain why I was voting this way is that I wasn't expecting that we were going to be voting on this particular issue. I'm not a permanent member of the committee, so I ask for your indulgence to give me one minute to speak to it and explain myself.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Mr. Dong, you do not have a vote in this vote. Only sitting members can do that.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Okay.