Evidence of meeting #22 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vaccines.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON
Actually, Mr. Chair, I need to leave for another meeting. I believe I have made up the time that I have lost.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen
Certainly, Minister, and we appreciate the fact that you came on and actually stayed longer than the 90 minutes that you indicated you would. We really appreciate your efforts on this.
Liberal
Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON
I want to thank you so much, Mr. Chair. As I said, I always enjoy coming to OGGO. Thank you so much for having me here and for those excellent questions.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen
Thank you, Minister.
We have basically two more rounds of questions, so if the officials would stay on for just the next 10 minutes, we should be right on time.
We will go to Ms. Harder for five minutes.
Conservative
Conservative
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Mr. Matthews, I want to talk about the sole-source gift to SNC-Lavalin for $150 million for the field hospitals. What justifications are there for that sole-source contract for them?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
There are two points to make here. There was analysis done on who was in the market, and two contracts were awarded, one to Weatherhaven and one to SNC-Lavalin, because they were both companies that were providing similar services: one to the U.S. army and I believe one to the Red Cross, but don't quote me on that.
There was a need for speed here, so it was two companies, different constructs.
Conservative
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I'd have to get back to you, Mr. Chair, with the details, but I'd flag that there are three elements. One is the design, two is the actual unit and three is supply deployment.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
How much has SNC actually built with that money since being awarded the contract?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Again, we'll have to go back to the details on the split between the two. The hospital that is currently being deployed for Ontario is the Weatherhaven model.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
How much has SNC actually built for that $150 million so far?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Again, Mr. Chair, we can get back to you with specifics. I think it's probably relevant to see both.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
My understanding is nothing yet. In September there was no fixed delivery date.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The way these—
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I'm just, again, trying to figure out.... We have internal emails justifying the sole-source contract to SNC based on the urgency, and yet here we are almost a year later, and they really haven't done anything with it.
I'm trying to reconcile our having to give them a sole-source contract because it's urgent. Months after we give it to them there's no fixed delivery date, on something urgent, and here we are.... No one seems to know any use for them.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Chair, I can help you with this now. I understand the premise now.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The urgency was around the design, because we had to be up and ready in case there was an ask. You can't put these into place once there's an ask. We had the idea that there were asks coming from the provinces, and—
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Let me interrupt. There was no ask; it was just a proposed “we think there'll be an ask”. Who, then, decided that we need to find a project for SNC based on a non-existent ask? We've checked, and the internal documents we found show that no provinces were asking for this.
I'm trying to figure out how they got this. There was no one asking for this, and yet.... It's almost like WE: no one was asking for it, yet here we go. Again, no one was asking for this, and yet we found a sole-source contract for SNC—for urgent reasons—that no one really wanted, and we really haven't done anything with it yet.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Again, Mr. Chair, this was a planned backstop. Hospitals were filling up and it was about having a backstop ready, or in fact, two, and to lock down some of the supplies necessary in case they were needed. However, this was very much a backstop, and as we've discussed, one has been deployed and one is not yet used.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Who asked for them, then? When you foresaw this issue, who was asking for them?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
There were ongoing discussions with the provinces, through Health Canada, around hospitals filling up and what capacity was there, and then PSPC moved to actually put the contracts in place with the two companies.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Was it on their own, without an official request from a province saying we need these now, or we need these later?
