Government Operations Committee on April 14th, 2021

[Bill Matthews]

We'll have to get back, Mr. Chair.

Again, don't hold me to that $600 million. I understand the question, and we'll come back and give you a number that includes pre- and post-tax—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Sure. I'll just put it on the record. It's a question that's not going away, Mr. Matthews.

[Bill Matthews]

I know—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'm seeking clarity on the way that your department costs procurement, and the inconsistencies in which I've had.... I've had the opportunity now to go to public accounts and ask Treasury Board this same question, and there are some significant inconsistencies in the way that procurement is doing its cost estimates.

I'll go on—

[Bill Matthews]

Do you mind, Mr. Chair, if I respond to that? I appreciate the nature of the question, but I—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It was a statement, and I have four minutes left, so what I'll do now is go on to your statement back in July of 2020, when you mentioned that you had “secured” a “significant” amount “of PPE and other medical equipment and supplies to support front-line health care workers”.

What's the current level of our PPE and medical equipment that we've secured and that we have for our frontline health care workers?

[Bill Matthews]

I think it's over two billion items of PPE.

In terms of what's been distributed versus what's sitting in warehouses owned or operated by the federal government—in this case, the Public Health Agency—we'd have to circle back to them to get an answer, but just to give you a sense of order of magnitude, in terms of the warehouse space that is being utilized by the Public Health Agency of Canada now, we're up over two million square feet in terms of warehouse space versus where we were when the pandemic started, just to give you a sense of the volume—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Just to be clear, through you, Mr. Chair, there are two million more square feet than before the pandemic started?

[Bill Matthews]

I believe that's the correct number.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Would you then go on the record and just in your own personal, professional opinion acknowledge that it was perhaps a mistake to shutter three national emergency strategic stockpile facilities under the guise that we didn't need the square footage and we were going to save a couple of hundred thousand bucks?

[Bill Matthews]

I think the only thing I would offer on that front, Mr. Chair, is that the pandemic has certainly required an awful lot more joint procurement with the provinces, so more is flowing through the Public Health Agency than you would have seen in the past, and that has required an increase in the amount of space available.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Would that be more or less than we had in total prior to shuttering the three critical national emergency strategic stockpile facilities?

[Bill Matthews]

I'm not certain, Mr. Chair, because I don't know what the square footage of that particular space was.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It would be interesting, and I look forward to finding out.

Also in July, the minister announced the creation of an “essential services contingency reserve”—it sounds a lot like a national emergency strategic stockpile—and that this was a “backstop that will provide organizations with PPE on a cost-recovery basis”.

Is the essential services contingency reserve fully operational? If so, when did it begin operating?

[Bill Matthews]

It is indeed fully operational, Mr. Chair. We'll have to get you an exact date in terms of when it became fully operational, because it was gradually building up its inventory—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Do you know how many requests they've had to access it?

[Bill Matthews]

Mr. Chair, we can come back with the requests, but I would make the point that this reserve is open to a different kind of group of industries—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Sure. Would you talk about which sectors would be accessing it?

[Bill Matthews]

Absolutely. This is where I was going with the response, Mr. Chair.

When you think about the national reserve, it's very much health care related, but this essential services reserve—energy and utilities, finance, food and water, transportation, public safety—is for a broader group of industry types.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Would these be government organizations or would they be private corporations?

[Bill Matthews]

They would be private, and potentially government as well if they fell in that list of categories of industries or services that met the needs of essential services.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Would you think that PPE is part of basic public health and safety within the context of our labour laws?

[Bill Matthews]

I'm not sure I understand the question, Mr. Chair.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

The question that I put to the Minister of Health is if she would consider applying the Westray law to private corporations that refused and failed, through criminal negligence, to provide basic, critical PPE in a time of pandemic.

Now I'm understanding that the government is footing the bill for these private corporations. I'm wondering if this would be a covering off of a shortfall under our labour laws for basic public health and safety.

[Bill Matthews]

I think the distinction there, Mr. Chair, is that this essential services reserve is open on a cost recovery basis to these industries, so it's not the government footing the bill and—