Government Operations Committee on May 5th, 2021

[Dr. Joanne Langley]

I can start with that. That's a very good question.

Viral vector vaccines do have a place, but every vector is not identical. There are a range of.... There's vesicular stomatitis, adenovirus, and there are different types of adenoviruses. I don't think we can put them all in the same bucket. They may not all have the same efficacy or safety concerns.

Therefore, at this point, I wouldn't honestly say that they are done, at all. That they—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

The reason I brought this up is that both the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines, as I understand it, are viral vectors. We do have plans and capacity here in Canada to do that, and we now see the Biden administration waiving patents.

I'm going to go back to that question. We're watching the profits of these major pharmaceutical companies tank in the stock market today. I think it's criminal that they profited in the ways they did during this crisis anyways.

Understanding that the patents are being waived, if there's an opportunity for us to take this technology and apply it here locally and domestically in the medium term, could we do that with the existing viral vector technology that we have?

[Dr. Joanne Langley]

I think Roger would be best placed to answer that.

[Mark Lievonen]

I would be happy to speak to it.

[Dr. Joanne Langley]

Would you? Okay. Sure.

[Mark Lievonen]

If I understand the question correctly.... There are investments being made in viral vector capacity here, as well, so that could be an opportunity, as well, down the road to produce them here.

However, in terms of viral vector vaccines, those may also be available for other parts of the world. As you were suggesting and Joanne was saying, the RNA vaccines are present here. We've had a role for the viral vector vaccines for sure. What that role may be in the future, it may be more available, more amenable, or more desirable for other parts of the globe. Certainly, we do have viral vector capability here in some cases, and if there were a need or a desire to—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Did the committee ever consider a nationalized program, or was it always just solely focused on private sector profiteering off this vaccine procurement?

[Roger Scott-Douglas]

Maybe, Mark, I could mention just a couple of key investments that were made in the public domain. One was in the National Research Council Royalmount facility, where construction of a whole new biologics manufacturing centre is under way.

The second is in VIDO, which is a public sector investment attached to the University of Saskatchewan, where there's been very significant investment, as well, both in manufacturing and vaccine candidates.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Paul-Hus for five minutes.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to continue along the same lines as my colleague Mr. Green with respect to the types of vaccines.

This week, the National Advisory Committee on Immunization made it clear that mRNA vaccines are really better for Canadians.

As a committee, will you recommend that the government not renew the agreements and contracts with AstraZeneca and Johnson and Johnson?

We know that we will need vaccine doses next year.

[Dr. Joanne Langley]

I could start with that one.

As we plan for subsequent years of the pandemic—if it does continue for subsequent years—the considerations will be a little different. The viral vector vaccines played a marvellous role in being able to be scaled up quickly and to provide disease control early in the pandemic. Whether they will be the best ones as the pandemic evolves will be, I think, a different conversation. That is certainly part of our discussions.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Our experience with the different vaccines confirmed our needs in light of the viruses and variants.

On the subject of vaccine types, back in February you said that CanSino, one of the candidate vaccines, had been considered. Yet in May, the doses were held back in China.

Did you know that? At what point did you find out?

[Dr. Joanne Langley]

The task force wasn't constituted until June, so it wasn't involved in considering anything before that time.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Since you are at Dalhousie University, I believe you were aware of the negotiations and were already working with CanSino.

[Dr. Joanne Langley]

I'm based at the Canadian Centre for Vaccinology at Dalhousie University, and we do research on vaccines early in their development and do a lot of phase 1 trials, mainly for Canadian candidates, but also for other ones. We had a collaboration with the National Research Council and CanSino to look at the clinical development of a potential vaccine for the pandemic.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I remember we talked about the CanSino file at the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology a few weeks ago. As you said, your committee was not created when Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada decided to do business with CanSino. Your committee was created later, when the government already knew that there was a problem related to CanSino.

When you were in place, after you had time to settle in, had negotiations with Pfizer and Moderna already begun, or were your recommendations what led the department to these companies?

[Dr. Joanne Langley]

I'm not sure I understand the question entirely, but I can just—

[Mark Lievonen]

Maybe I can jump in.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

At the beginning of the pandemic, the government decided to do business with CanSino, when your committee had not yet been struck. Subsequently, it became known that there was a problem in connection with CanSino. Your committee was created in June, and its first meetings took place. By that time, the government had already begun negotiations with Pfizer and Moderna, among others.

Had your team made its recommendations before or not?

[Mark Lievonen]

I could answer that, Roger.

When our task force started, there were discussions with CanSino. We did discuss CanSino—and after the agreements were already in place, they were marching down the path. But early on in our discussions, we were concerned about the delay in samples coming to Canada, so we did provide some advice to the government around CanSino and what they should do in that regard.

In terms of Moderna and Pfizer, we met with them and we provided advice to the government and the task force was announced on August 5. At the same time the government announced the task force, I believe, is when they announced the agreements with Pfizer and Moderna, based on the advice of the task force.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Monsieur Paul-Hus.

You have five seconds.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

Mr. Drouin, you have five minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all of the witnesses for being here.

Whether it's for Dr. Langley or Mr. Lievonen, I want to go in the same vein as my colleague Mr. Paul-Hus with regard to the timing of vaccines.

We've often heard critics saying that we were one of the last countries to sign contracts with Pfizer or Moderna. Was that the case to your knowledge?

[Mark Lievonen]

To our knowledge we gave advice to the Government of Canada, and the Government of Canada then made agreements with those companies and announced them. I remember a particular evening when some concerns about Canada's ability or timing of our contracts were expressed. I think it was the chairman or CEO of Moderna who appeared on Canadian television to assure Canadians that the Canadian government was at the front of the line for a supply of Moderna vaccine.