Government Operations Committee on May 12th, 2021

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Let's go back to the timing. When can Canadians expect to get a clear picture on where we're headed based on the budget that was presented on April 19?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

We already have quite a lot of information. You would have read the 820 page budget and would have probably kept in mind most of it. You also have heard debates in the House, and you would have read the budget implementation act. All of this is very substantial and very full—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

On that point, through you, Mr. Chair, I noticed within the budget there wasn't a lot about the settlement for land claims. Do you have any idea about how much the government is setting aside to settle existing land claims?

I'll bring to your attention the ongoing reclamation that is happening at 1492 Land Back.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

This is a very good question.

As you will know, it's reconciliation, affirmation and respect for indigenous peoples that has been at the centre of our actions and attitudes since 2015. It's ongoing work. I'm sure you will want to invite my colleagues, Minister Bennett and Minister Miller, to listen to and talk to them. They would be, I think, not only happy to talk to you but also to hear from you on how we can make that important work advance even further.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Minister, and Mr. Green.

We'll now go to Ms. Harder for five minutes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being with us today.

You talked about reinforcing your priorities in your opening remarks. I'm just wondering, are you familiar with your departmental plan?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Yes, of course I'm familiar with the department plan.

I know that you will have read it completely and most likely not only understood, but appreciated most of it.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Sure.

One of the things that was talked about earlier between you and one of the Liberal members at the table was the importance of diversity. The statement was made by you that diversity is incredibly important. I can appreciate that.

What's interesting to me, when I look at the departmental plan, are the goals that are set out in terms of the number of people within the executive, so executive employees, who are also a member of a visible minority. The goal is actually not to increase the number of those individuals but actually to decrease the number of those individuals. I find that interesting and actually quite concerning given the state of our country and where I think most people would like to go and also given the statement that you made earlier with regard to placing incredible importance on diversity.

Right now, the percentage of those individuals who are members of a visible minority is 11.5%, but the target that you've set out is 10.6%. That's actually a 0.8% drop. Your goal is actually to reduce the number of visible minorities within your executive. Why?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Harder. I'm glad to be speaking about this. Let me say two things briefly.

First about the data, as you would have seen, we are proud and pleased to be able to provide further disaggregated data. I spoke earlier, as you might have heard, about the—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I'm not asking about disaggregated data. I'm asking why your goal is actually to decrease the number of individuals who are members of visible minorities.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

First is the numbers, and second is the targets and the achievements.

The numbers, as you also said, matter because if we want to make further progress, we need to know what the current situation is. These numbers, the seven sets of disaggregated data that I mentioned earlier—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Why are you wanting to decrease the percentage of individuals who are within your executive who are also a member of a visible minority?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

As I'm trying to say, the numbers matter very much—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I don't actually need to be mansplained to. I understand the data. I have the chart in front of me.

I actually just need you to answer the question.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Second are the targets, and we're very pleased that—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

You continue to mansplain. Why?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

—you and I can see that sometimes we even exceed those targets. Exceeding targets is, in most cases, a good thing and we're all going to continue so we can exceed those targets.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I totally agree with that. I think exceeding the targets is a good thing, which is why I'm confused, and actually baffled, as to why this is something that your department has done year over year.

This isn't just a one-off. It's in this departmental plan and it was actually in the last departmental plan as well, where your goal was actually to decrease the percentage of people who are members of visible minorities and who are a part of your executive team. This isn't just a one-off. This isn't just a glitch.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I think you're right, Rachael.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Don't you want to get better? If you're committed to diversity, shouldn't you be setting your targets above where you're at rather than setting your targets below where you're currently at?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

The key word here is “right”; I think you're right to ask for clarity. I would, therefore, turn probably to Tolga to explain, perhaps in some more detail, what exactly the departmental plan says.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Sure, and Minister, if I may, maybe he can explain both of these things at the same time.

In your departmental plan, you've actually outlined the same type of priority for women. The current rate is 51.1%, but your target for this coming year is 48%, so you're actually aiming for a 6% drop in the number of women who are employed within your department. That doesn't speak of diversity, if you're looking to get rid of those who are part of a visible minority group and women.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Are you hoping for clarity and less confusion? If so, I can turn to Tolga. Tolga will be pleased to clarify and make these things less confusing for you.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I'm just wondering, Minister, why you're not setting your targets higher rather than lower than where they are currently.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Would you like an answer?