Evidence of meeting #5 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Karen Cahill  Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
Sandra Hassan  Assistant Deputy Minister, Employment Conditions and Labour Relations, Treasury Board Secretariat
Glenn Purves  Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Alison McDermott  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance

9 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

Thank you, Ms. Vignola.

We'll now go to Mr. Green for two and a half minutes.

9 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

I know it's been quite a hot seat here for two hours—late on into the evening—and I'm satisfied with my opening rounds of questioning to the staff. However, I want to provide a message of support and solidarity to all of the front-line public service sector workers. I would ask that you give, through this experience, feedback to your staff that we certainly appreciate their work during the tumultuous time of COVID. Although it's our responsibility, at least my and the opposition's responsibility, to hold government accountable, that's certainly never and not a reflection of front-line workers and staff, whom you all are leading in your respective departments.

I appreciate your candour and anticipate getting to know and work with all of you over these next weeks and months—hopefully, barring a snap election, as stranger things have happened—as you continue to deliver the type of quality of services that Canadians have grown to expect and demand.

With that, I will relinquish the remainder of my time and thank all of the public sector workers who have helped steward us through this very tumultuous time.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

9 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

Thank you, Mr. Green. I appreciate your kinds words for the officials who are here today and those who work tirelessly for us.

We still have Mr. McCauley and Mr. MacKinnon.

Mr. McCauley, you have five minutes.

9 p.m.

Liberal

Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

As a point of clarification, Chair, we've now been sitting for officially two hours. It's 9:04. I'm wondering, if committee members have more questions, if we could perhaps invite the officials later, at a regular time. It has officially been two hours, and normally our time would be up and we would probably dismiss our witnesses.

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

If Mr. MacKinnon gives up his time and I take five minutes, we will be done in five minutes.

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Mr. Chair, the clerk had—

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

I know that the officials had offered to stay as long as possible. I appreciate their staying the extra time. We basically have 10 minutes of questions left. I'm hoping that 10 minutes would be good for them to stay in that time frame.

I'm looking to see if there's any shaking of heads or thumbs up or thumbs down.

Seeing none, we will go with the five-minute questions and finish up.

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Thanks. I probably don't need five minutes.

Mr. Purves, I realize it's not your direct responsibility, but maybe you could direct me to who would be looking after this. The guidelines say that TBS works with departments and agencies to address issues in compliance with contracting policies.

Who within TBS would do that? It would be nice if we could have a whole slew more TBS people here, so we could not put you on the hot seat. Where would I follow up with that?

9:05 p.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Glenn Purves

Why don't we get back to you in writing on that question.

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Perfect.

I have another last quick question for you. Were you at the Treasury Board meeting when the WE Charity submission was discussed?

9:05 p.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Glenn Purves

I'm trying to think. I don't recall. I don't know how to—

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Okay. You might be back with us for the supplementary (B)'s, so maybe let us know then.

9:05 p.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Glenn Purves

Usually these appearances at cabinet meetings are cabinet confidence.

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

I'm not asking you to divulge anything if you were there.

I'm not sure if this is possible, but the team that put together the GC InfoBase appeared with us a couple of years ago. A phenomenal couple of guys developed that. Is there a reason or a way we can get all the COVID spending loaded onto GC InfoBase? You mentioned that FINA was getting it. The PBO was quite clear that there's a lack of transparency in that regard. Can we get it loaded there?

9:05 p.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Glenn Purves

Understood. I think it's a great question. It's something we can certainly look at for GC InfoBase.

When we think about the COVID expenditures and so forth, I want to take maybe one minute to explain the scoping issue.

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

I just have one last quick question. Can I ask that, and then you can answer them both at the same time?

9:05 p.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Actually, go ahead and answer. I will come up with the last question. Sorry.

9:05 p.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Glenn Purves

When we think of the COVID expenditures through the estimates, we're reporting effectively for appropriation-dependent organizations that draw from the CRF. There's a broader scope of supports that are being provided, like liquidity supports and Bank of Canada liquidity. Things like the wage subsidy are like tax expenditures, and so forth.

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

I realize it's not the ideal way to do it, but if there were a way to do it....

9:05 p.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Glenn Purves

We can certainly look at GC InfoBase. There is a lot of information out there. We can see about centralizing things.

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Did you read the PBO report that came out this morning on the supplementary estimates?

November 4th, 2020 / 9:05 p.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

They were quite critical about the lack of transparency. Why is that still happening? This lack of transparency is mentioned in every PBO report. They were quite adamant about it and quite pointed in their comments about the lack of transparency.

Is that political? Is it administrative? How do we fix this?