Government Operations Committee on Feb. 5th, 2024

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

You have since, of your own accord, provided the RCMP with an indication of that, and you've given them and released information to them. Have you had any discussions subsequent to that with the RCMP?

[Michel Lafleur]

Yes, we have engaged with the RCMP throughout the investigation to provide them information, as per their lawful request.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Is it specific to Botler's allegations—

[Michel Lafleur]

That's correct.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

—where there were no contracts?

[Michel Lafleur]

There was no contract with Botler.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Right.

Some here are claiming that maybe you're withholding information from us. Is that true?

[Michel Lafleur]

No, not at all.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

The information that you have you've given to the RCMP, but they haven't conducted an outcome. They haven't determined any guilt. Is that right?

[Michel Lafleur]

That's my understanding.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Have you determined any guilt?

[Michel Lafleur]

No, our investigation is ongoing.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

What is there that you can explain to us that would give us comfort that there's some wrongdoing? At this point you're investigating any possibility of that. Is that correct?

[Michel Lafleur]

We're investigating the possibility of that, and there have been extensive disclosures to this committee pursuant to your production orders. You have a significant amount of evidence to look at as well.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Right.

As you can tell, through these committee hearings we've had a lot of discussions not just around the activities of Botler but other possible allegations that could be made. Of course, the ombudsman came back with a number of recommendations. Are you aware of those recommendations?

[Michel Lafleur]

I am.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Did you participate or co-operate with the ombudsman during that procedure?

[Michel Lafleur]

Yes. I have responsibility for security screening for the agency, so we provided information around the security screening questions that they had.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

There were practices that were explained, which I understand have been prevalent over decades, even under the previous government. Is that correct?

[Michel Lafleur]

It is my understanding that some of the issues raised have been systemic in government for some time.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

I know that some members across have suggested that something has just happened, which is not the case, in terms of providing for.... Especially during the pandemic a lot of contracts were initiated, but then they've subsequently used their services to do other functions. Is that correct? I think they call them swaps, or bait and...whatever they're called.

[Michel Lafleur]

It's “bait and switch” or something like that.

I can't speak to those details.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Have you seen that occur in the past?

[Michel Lafleur]

I haven't had that many procurement-related investigations, so, no, I have not.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Do you foresee anything negative there? Is there something wrong that's happened?

Did the ombudsman say there was any wrongdoing or any misconduct?