Evidence of meeting #108 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contract.
A video is available from Parliament.
Partner, GC Strategies
I have numbers that the actual application itself was opened 216 million times. It was being used by around 40 million people.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
There were some who were detained inappropriately, I understand. I was one of them, in fact. I bet that number is.... I think someone quoted 10,000. Is that right?
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
It's been applied and used extensively, as you just noted.
With regard to the development of this product, it seems to be assumed that you're the sole provider. Can you advise the public who are watching on how many contractors were actually part of the development of the ArriveCAN application?
Partner, GC Strategies
I think the number the AG threw out was around 19 different vendors.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Then, the other issue is the expertise and the skill set within the civil service to provide this application. I want to try to equate this as though we have a lot of real estate, assets and engagement. This application also has intellectual property. There's an asset value to this application. Is this correct?
Partner, GC Strategies
This is not throwaway code. The Government of Canada owns all of the IP, which is a platform on which other applications can be built.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
When the government engages in constructing a building, does it do it itself or does it contract out?
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Then we would involve a contractor, and that contractor would then use subcontractors to provide the construction of that asset.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
The general contractor in the construction of a building will take a percentage of the overall cost of that contract. Is that how it works?
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
The construction of a 350-unit building might cost $100 million. What kind of percentage does that general contractor take? Do you have a sense? Do you know?
Partner, GC Strategies
No. I'm sorry, but I don't. I'm guessing it's over 20%.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
There's an evaluation, mind you, when they do a contract. There's a sense of what that value should be, and then it's audited and monitored to ensure that there are no overruns. Does that happen when you're involved?
Partner, GC Strategies
Yes, there will always be back-and-forth with the financial groups and the procurement and contracting areas to make sure there's a significant run rate left on the task authorization, that there's enough money left on the contract. You can't go over, so they're always timing their deliverables with financial lines in place to make sure there are funds in place to finish that part of the work.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Do you have a sense of how many contracts the Government of Canada does annually, not just in IT but for a whole suite of activities?
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
The outcome and the value for money are the crux of this thing, aren't they? We're all trying to assess who's getting paid, whether somebody is taking privilege in these contracts and whether somebody is milking the system. The Auditor General has stated that there could have been better value for money in this instance, but that didn't occur.
What's your perception of the value for money in this situation, given the pandemic and what took place?
Partner, GC Strategies
Obviously I can speak only about the component I was working on. I can speak very highly of the team of 30 or 40 people who were working 12 to 14 hours a day, seven days a week. I would challenge anybody to put that much effort in. The prices were substantiated by the Crown. I think the team that was put forward did a great job.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
During that process, you had interactions, presumably, with the employer, the buyer, to verify the consequence of what you were doing. Is that correct?
Partner, GC Strategies
We submit monthly invoices. We don't get a cheque up front. At any time, those invoices can be rejected, or time sheets can be rejected, but the fact that they were approved every single month for 27 to 36 months told us we were doing a good job. Otherwise you guys would not have paid.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
You were a verified contractor long before ArriveCAN and long before the Liberal government was in power. Is that correct?
