Evidence of meeting #108 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contract.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Partner, GC Strategies
If you mean the private companies, they are IT software firms. They are systems integrators.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Let's turn to the quality of your work on the ArriveCAN app.
How would you rate the final product? With all the trials and tribulations, Canadians were negatively affected by the rollout of this new app, as we saw.
Partner, GC Strategies
I think, understanding the circumstances the whole of Canada and the whole of the world were in, and the fact that this went through 170 renditions and they were delivered always on time, I think our work was done very well, and I feel like the application was a success. I believe there were 260—
Partner, GC Strategies
I believe the application was a success. I think it was 260 million times that the app was opened.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Are you serious when you say that the application was a success?
Partner, GC Strategies
I think it did exactly what it was supposed to. It was to open the borders. It helped to streamline the process. It was to be a low-touch application. I think if we look at those.... You know, there was a moving target. PHAC was sending out new policies every month or so.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Mr. Firth, what say you to the 10,200 people who launched a class action because your app resulted in their having to quarantine when they didn't need to? Do you call that a success?
Partner, GC Strategies
I think it's very unfortunate for those 10,000 people, but I cannot comment on things that happened within the application. I provided the resources.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
I have to stop you there, Mr. Firth. You said the application was a success, so I'm telling you point-blank about a problem that affected thousands of Canadians. Some 10,200 people launched a class action because your app resulted in their having to quarantine when they never should have.
You say you aren't responsible. Why are you washing your hands of the situation?
Partner, GC Strategies
I'm so sorry. I really have no comment on it. That's not my line of expertise.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Unbelievable. If not your line of expertise, then whose?
Partner, GC Strategies
We were not involved in the architecture: Understand that this project was derived and project managed by the CBSA.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
How can you justify turning a $2.5‑million profit on the app to those 10,200 people? Do you really think you deserve a $2.5‑million profit for making 10,200 people quarantine for no reason?
Partner, GC Strategies
I'm sorry. Can you repeat that? My headphones just broke.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
You said earlier that you made $2.5 million in profit on the app, according to your numbers. The Auditor General thinks otherwise, but let's go with your number. That means you made a profit of $2.5 million for doing 40 hours of work a month. I'll come back to that.
I am telling you point-blank that 10,200 people wound up having to quarantine needlessly because of your app, and you call that a success. Is that the type of success that warrants a $2.5‑million profit?
Partner, GC Strategies
Like I said previously, I don't make that decision. The government obviously sees value in what we do. That's why we were working there for three years.
Conservative
Partner, GC Strategies
Again, I did not make the decision. The government sees value in what we do. We were not part of architecting this application.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you very much, sir.
It's over to you, Mr. Jowhari, please, for five.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Firth, I'm going to pick up where I left off. I want to close the loop on the rate to the Crown.
To confirm, the rate to the Crown is determined by the Crown, based on the available market rate and the availability at the time, and that's communicated to the vendor as the rate that's going to be accepted. This rate is inclusive of the hourly rate, as well as what we call the per diems for food, transportation and all of that.
Is my statement correct?
Partner, GC Strategies
It's somewhat correct. However many people are responding to an RFP will give their financial bid. What that means is I will determine that I think somebody is worth $1,400. Another vendor may say, “I think that person is worth $1,500.” The third vendor says, “I think they're worth $1,300.” The Crown would determine through a median band that the rate, as a result of those three bids, is $1,400.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you for that.
That clarifies that the rate the Crown develops is a median of the rates from the vendors that are responding to the RFP. Is that correct?