Evidence of meeting #108 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contract.
A video is available from Parliament.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
As an owner of GC Strategies, you obviously have control over your company's website.
You were here 16 months ago as part of the arrive scam inquiry. I asked you in October 2022 to provide the names of senior government officials who offer glowing endorsements for you on your website. I want to read some of those, because you haven't had a chance over the last 16 months, I guess, to furnish us with that information.
Here's one for you for GC Strategies:
They see the bigger picture and do not chase the “quick sale”. I think they are first and foremost are a taxpayer and see efficiency and getting the best value for government.
That's a chief data officer in the public sector. What's their name?
1:45 p.m.
Partner, GC Strategies
First of all, apologies for not getting that information to you. I thought I had. I sent hundreds of pages that day, and I'm more than happy to give you that information in writing.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Okay. Let's be serious, sir. You've had 16 months, and you want us to believe that you're going to provide us with that information now that you've been asked again.
A Government of Canada senior executive said:
GCstrategies listen and try to find solutions to my problems vs. selling me a solution to a problem I've never had.
Who was that person?
1:45 p.m.
Partner, GC Strategies
I'm sorry. You can ask me the three or four that are on there, and my answer is going to be the same. I will get you that information. I promise you that. I thought I'd sent it over 16 months ago.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Sir, let me very clear that in the arrive scam there are all kinds of players who play all kinds of different roles, and you've demonstrated yourself to be a liar. You've lied before a parliamentary committee on multiple occasions. You even undertook to provide to me this information.
Sixteen months ago, you and I had this exchange, and now you're here, and the only reason you came was that you were threatened with arrest. You've come virtually, and now your undertaking is to provide the information. You promise—cross your heart—that you're going to do it this time, but you couldn't do it before.
It strains reason and certainly demonstrates that you don't have any credibility when it comes to the questions we ask, which leaves me to wonder what I should even bother asking you, because I can't believe anything that you're going to say. Will you provide us with those names right now? You obviously know who the VP of a major Crown corporation was who appears on your website. The chief information officer for the Government of Canada: What was the name? You know.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
No, sir. No, sir, I do not accept that. You will provide this committee with a name. You've had 16 months to do it. This is your opportunity now to demonstrate that you are true to your word.
Are you going to make that demonstration, or are you going to prove what we know to be true, which is that you're not honest?
March 13th, 2024 / 1:50 p.m.
Partner, GC Strategies
As I said, I appreciate the question. I will give you the answers.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Your appreciation for the question isn't the reason I asked it. I'm looking for the information.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You also said that 16 months ago.
Sir, it is not just contempt of Parliament, but it's contemptuous to Canadians. They are lined up at food banks in record numbers, and you are raking in millions of dollars off the backs of Canadians. Then, when you're called to provide even just the smallest bit of accountability, you laugh in Canadians' faces. It's disgusting, to be clear.
We'll see if you do in fact provide those names finally, this time, but after 16 months, I certainly don't believe you, and neither can Canadians.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thanks. That is our time.
Mr. Firth, you're welcome to offer a quick response. Otherwise, we'll go to Mr. Kusmierczyk.
Mr. Firth, did you want to respond to that?
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Irek Kusmierczyk Liberal Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do have a motion that I would like to put forward as well, before my time expires. Perhaps you could give me a heads-up so that I can put the motion forward.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Are you intending just to read it into the record, or are you putting it as a matter-at-hand motion?
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Irek Kusmierczyk Liberal Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
GC Strategies is essentially an IT staffing agency. The Auditor General noted the differences between the per diem costs of a private staffing agency versus someone who works in the public service in the IT sector. The per diem cost that the AG noted was about $1,090 for a staffing agency versus the per diem cost for a public sector IT professional, which is about $675. It's almost double.
It's reflective of what we're seeing. For example, we hear a lot in the news these days about private nursing staffing agencies. A regular RN, a registered nurse, working for a public hospital, for example, will make about $40 an hour, whereas a private staffing agency, a private staffing nurse, will typically make about $90 to $100 per hour, and in some instances $160 per hour. What we're seeing in the IT sector is also what we're seeing when it comes to nursing and health care and other sectors as well.
Can you tell us why there is such an increase in the cost of contracts for private sector staffing agencies like GC Strategies, or for nurses in the case of nursing? Could you highlight or enlighten us as to why there's such an increase?
1:50 p.m.
Partner, GC Strategies
The one that comes to mind is just the type of work these resources do. In the private sector, whether it's Shopify or whatever, it's more innovative technology with more innovative solutions, whereas in the public sector you're dealing with more of a mainframe system, or older back-end systems, and sometimes outdated technology as well, so the private sector can charge more, I think. They're going back to companies that are paying more because they just know that they're trying to get a specific skill set. They're always advancing technology. There are probably only 20 or 30 people, or 50 people, who can do that, versus 70 or 80 or 100 or 300 people who can do Java or dot-net or more of an established technology.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Irek Kusmierczyk Liberal Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Mr. Firth, where is the top talent migrating to when it comes to IT? Is it the public sector or the private sector?