Government Operations Committee on March 18th, 2024

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

I think some of the reasons we—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Is this on the amendment?

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Yes, it's on the amendment.

One of the reasons to do so is that the project we're discussing—the CBSA assessment and revenue management, known as CARM—was actually ongoing for some time prior to ArriveCAN. The process of establishment and some of the issues that precluded it from coming to be may be worth pursuing and understanding.

Hence, we would suggest going back further to then identify more effectively what has been done in respect to it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Go ahead, Mrs. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Again, Mr. Chair, CARM was, I believe, introduced in 2019. Therefore, my question still stands as to the relevancy or the need to go back to 2010.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Go ahead, Mr. Sousa.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

It was actually not a new initiative; it was introduced in 2010. It has nothing to do with ArriveCAN per se. It was something that was introduced. For us in this committee to have a better appreciation of what it's about, we have to go back to the beginning.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Seeing no one else, can we vote on the amendment?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, where are you getting this information from?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's not a point of order.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Okay.

I believe the committee is being misled about the creation of CARM. Perhaps we'll take that off-line, but everything I'm looking at on the Government of Canada website says it was introduced in 2019.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I understand.

I'll get to you in a second, Mr. Bachrach.

I'm not sure if anyone wants to share that, but if it didn't exist before 2019, it will certainly make it easy to get documents going back to 2010.

Mr. Bachrach, go ahead, sir, on the amendment.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

That was going to be my point, Mr. Chair. The date is somewhat irrelevant. We're essentially looking for all documentation related to the project. I think going back further ensures that we receive all of the relevant documentation. If there isn't any for those years, it's not going to show up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I apologize for stealing your commentary.

Are we ready to move ahead on the amendment? We're basically just changing it to 2010.

Do we need a vote, colleagues, or are we just fine moving ahead on the amendment?

We will do a recorded vote on it.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 7; nays 3 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Great. It is amended. We're back to the motion as amended.

Are we ready to move on that one, colleagues?

Seeing no one for the speaking list, do we need a vote on it, or can we consider it...?

Go ahead, Mr. Sousa.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

We appreciate that we're going to go back further.

Now, with respect to paragraphs A.b. and A.c., there's some discussion among us.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Chair, on a point of order, my understanding is that you called the vote. I thought Mr. Sousa was going to comment on whether he wanted a recorded vote or not.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

No, I didn't get to that point. I wish we had got to that point.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

He's going to filibuster some more. Okay.

Let's just adopt it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Go ahead, Mr. Sousa.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Now we're talking about the amended motion. Is that correct?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That is correct, sir.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Right.

As we go forward, we're having some deliberations on how to now proceed with respect to the communications as they relate to Deloitte's technical specs and the testing. These are items A.b. and A.c.

We would like to remove them. We would like to put forward a motion to remove A.b. and A.c.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You're moving an amendment to remove A.b. and A.c. Is that correct, Mr. Sousa?

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

That's correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I have Mr. Kusmierczyk to speak on the amendment.