Government Operations Committee on March 26th, 2024

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay—I'm not understanding whether that's, yes, you can table with the committee the names and titles of the individuals responsible for signing off on the ArriveCAN work.

[Jonathan Moor]

I'm hoping that we can do. I'm just saying that we'll go back and check—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

You're going to check first to see whether that information actually exists. Do I understand you correctly?

[Jonathan Moor]

That's exactly it.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I would certainly hope that it exists, but as we've seen throughout this inquiry, there are lots of surprises.

I'll look forward to you providing that information to the committee. If it's not provided, we'll ask questions about why it doesn't exist.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Moor and others, just so you're aware, at this committee we have passed a motion in the past requiring that any requests for a response back have to be within three weeks, lest you get called back on why you have not provided that information.

We're down to our second round of five minutes.

Mr. Brock, please go ahead.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Moor, I'm going back to the last question I had before I ran out of time, which was about the conversation between Minh Doan and Cameron MacDonald in October 2022.

Marco Mendicino was so unhappy with the media attention on ArriveCAN that he wanted “somebody's head on a platter”. Either Minh Doan would be fired or you, sir, would be fired. He made specific reference to that.

He turned and said, “You know, Cam, if I have to, I'm going to tell the committee that it was you.” He threatened Cam MacDonald. That threat was then relayed up the chain of command. Ultimately, it was communicated to Erin O'Gorman.

To your knowledge, sir, was anyone, particularly Minh Doan, suspended or reprimanded for that threat? Answer yes or no.

[Jonathan Moor]

I could start with the comment made by the minister. I'm not aware of that comment. I've never come across it. In fact, I never briefed the minister at that time, and I was not—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Minh Doan confirmed that the conversation took place. All right. We can move on from that.

Do you know if Minh Doan was reprimanded for his threat to Cameron MacDonald? Answer yes or no.

[Jonathan Moor]

No, I do not, but I understand that there's an investigation—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

Did you have any discussions with any of your ministers responsible for the portfolio during the ArriveCAN rollout? That would include Minister Mendicino, Minister Blair and Minister LeBlanc.

Did you have any personal discussions with any of your ministers?

[Jonathan Moor]

Personally, I briefed the ministers on supplementary estimates (B) and (C) packages in 2021-22, as well as on the announcement in budget 2022 of the $25 million—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Did you update any of the ministers with respect to the overruns with ArriveCAN?

[Jonathan Moor]

No, because those briefings were about the supplementary estimates to prepare them for the committee.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Were you aware of any other senior executive who would have had those discussions?

For instance, would the president and the deputy minister, Ms. O'Gorman and Mr. Ossowski, have had those discussions with those three ministers with respect to the cost overruns?

[Jonathan Moor]

I am not aware, but I can't comment on the former president.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay.

You heard reference to the award that you received for ArriveCAN, which really begs the question why the award was given, in light of the Auditor General's report and the procurement ombudsman's report.

Can you provide us with documentation, sir, as to how the three individuals identified at the CBSA received those awards, including their nominations and things of that nature? Can you provide that to the committee within three weeks?

[Jonathan Moor]

Again, I'm not aware of those awards, so I'll have to come back to you on them.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay.

We heard last week from PSPC that three additional companies that received taxpayer money and should not have received that taxpayer money are now being investigated by the RCMP. Those three companies were not identified by PSPC because of privacy concerns.

Are you familiar with the three companies in question, sir?

[Jonathan Moor]

I'm not familiar with those companies. However, I have been informed by PSPC that the CBSA is involved in this, and that our involvement is limited to $15,000.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Is the CBSA involved in relation to the three companies?

[Jonathan Moor]

I'm informed that the individuals who have been identified as fraudulently making claims...some of those claims are linked to us. I think there are 36 different departments affected. The CBSA is affected up to $15,000.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay. That was in relation to their supposed work on the ArriveCAN app.

[Jonathan Moor]

It's not necessarily in relation to the work on the ArriveCAN app; it could be in relation to anything else.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

It could be, though.