Government Operations Committee on March 27th, 2024

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I pretty much agree with the Liberals' motion. This doesn't happen often, by the way. Usually, I have something to add and I try to find a compromise so that everyone agrees. I'm honestly amazed by my own patience. My face holds no secrets because I'm an open book. I'm fully aware of that.

Despite what some members of all the other parties told me when I took office, politics isn't a game. Politics is about serving people. It's about reading budgets and bills from cover to cover; finding the information needed to fully understand the issues at hand; and being able to provide unbiased information to the people who ask us questions, so that they can see each point of view. When people write to me because they don't understand something, I respond by giving them the Bloc Québécois, Liberal, Conservative and NDP perspectives. That's what providing information to our constituents entails. It's the least that we can do.

These days, I get the impression that some people are treating politics like a game, no matter where they live. In our role as politicians, we make decisions that affect the future of the entire population. Again, this isn't a game. This isn't a round of Jumanji, Risk or Monopoly. We must also take care of our constituents. It's hard to do so when we're called into committee meetings at the last minute. I have been a good egg from the start. However, I now need to see my constituents and to stop postponing meetings every week because a committee meeting has been announced.

In any case, I don't blame the two people who will be here tomorrow. They have the right to have their say if they want to. However, we must take the time to meet with them properly. As I said earlier, we need time to prepare our questions and to fully grasp the issues affecting New Brunswick and Alberta in relation to the federal government. This is vital. It's part of our role. Yet we were given less than 24 hours' notice. I may be able to turn on a dime, but there are limits, darn it. I'm saying “darn it” to avoid using other unparliamentary words. There's a whole list of them.

I'll support this motion. It respectfully asks that this meeting be postponed to give us time to better prepare and study the issue before we hear from these people. The premiers aren't puppets and shouldn't be treated as such. We must show them respect and be well prepared.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Drouin, go ahead.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Vignola, I would like to think that you're supporting the motion because I'm here. We've worked so well together in the past. Oh, oh! (laughter)

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Don't get carried away!

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Chair, my advice.... Obviously, you can see where this is going. We will have to deal with this tomorrow, and if the motion.... If we don't deal with this today, we'll have to deal with this tomorrow. The majority of the members are not in accordance with what has transpired. I'm not going to judge anything. I have respect for you, Mr. Chair, but obviously you are at the command of the majority of the members. I think, on our side, we're ready to vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Lawrence.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you very much.

I think it's important to give some context for the meeting today.

In looking at the carbon tax, we heard testimony today from the PBO and we've heard testimony from the Governor of the Bank of Canada—both non-partisan experts in their respective fields—that the carbon tax is in fact causing individuals to go hungry. It's causing children to not be able to eat at night and go to bed hungry. This is a significant issue.

My understanding of it—I could be wrong; I have no inside information—is that the premiers wrote to the finance committee and asked that, before the April 1, when the carbon tax is set to increase by 23%.... We don't have much time here. We can postpone and live in an imaginary world where this doesn't exist, but it does. We have an April 1 deadline. They wrote to the Liberal finance committee. He deemed it was inappropriate and that somehow the premiers—millions of Canadians—should not have a voice and that we should all sit here and watch children not be able to eat at night because it might upset our schedule. Are you kidding me? How out of touch...?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

It's my time, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I would ask everyone to take it down a bit.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I'm sorry.

I didn't have enough to eat. I sometimes skipped meals for whole days. The carbon tax didn't exist yet.

The carbon tax is like the pandemic. It takes a lot of flack. Can we get back to it?

We must listen to the premiers. However, there are certain times to do so. We must also avoid using them as puppets.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Before we continue, I will remind everyone that your voice levels affect our interpreters.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I apologize to the interpreters, but I'm not apologizing for my comments because they represent the reality.

We heard today from the Parliamentary Budget Officer that the carbon tax is increasing the cost of food. We're facing an affordability crisis. I met yesterday with a single mom who has a couple of kids and whose mortgage eats up her entire paycheque, so she has to use a food bank. This is not a laughing matter. This is serious, guys.

Premiers wrote to the finance committee and the Liberal chair decided that their voices weren't important and that the millions of Canadians they represent didn't count.

Yes, our chair followed proper parliamentary procedure and called a meeting so that the premiers, the leaders of millions of Canadians from New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Saskatchewan and Alberta, could testify. I'm sorry that we had to move around our schedules. I know that we're all very busy, but millions of Canadians want to express their view that the carbon tax is hurting families and it's hurting Canadians.

I don't think it's asking too much for 12 members of Parliament to move around their schedules for those voices to be heard.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Does anyone else wish to speak to this?

Mr. Bachrach, are you joining us?

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Yes, Mr. Chair, but unfortunately I don't have my headphones.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We'll recognize thumbs up or down for you then.

Mr. Vignola, please go ahead.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I would like to invite Mr. Lawrence to put on his earpiece. In my remarks earlier, I set him straight about the fact that people didn't need a carbon tax to have to skip meals, put their children first and struggle to pay the rent. I've done my fair share of that over the years.

I also talked about the respect owed to the people whom we want to invite and the need to fully grasp their situations and issues. This isn't just about meeting with the people who have been asking to see me for months, and that's already a lot. It's also about showing respect for the witnesses. I know that April 1 is coming up and that this isn't an April fool's joke. Nonetheless, it's about showing respect for premiers and their time. Their time is just as valuable, if not more valuable, than ours. A premier of a Canadian province or Quebec has a long list of responsibilities.

I prefer to set the record straight. With my average of 80 hours of work a week, I don't think that anyone would consider me a lazy person who skips out on her work, wants to rush through things and doesn't want to attend one more meeting. That isn't the case at all. Let me be very clear. In my opinion, this is about showing respect for our guests and for the teams involved. We must constantly ask these teams to work more quickly. Our guests have the right to receive questions related to their concerns and to feel fully heard and not rushed. I wanted to make that clear.

I'm ready to vote at any time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

Mr. Lawrence.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

To the extent that my colleague took any personal offence, I apologize. I was not in any way saying that she was lazy in other ways. What I am saying, and I make no apologies for this, is that Canadians are facing an affordability crisis.

Thank you for sharing your personal story.

I've heard from tens, if not hundreds, of people in my riding who are going through that exact scenario. The reality is that facts are facts. The Parliamentary Budget Officer came before us today and told us—

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Yes, go ahead, Mrs. Atwin.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I believe we're debating a motion that's on the floor, so I question the relevance of Mr. Lawrence's comments right now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I think he is speaking to it. We always allow very wide latitude with debate.

Go ahead, Mr. Lawrence.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you very much.

To respond to that, I'll say that what I'm talking about is the carbon tax, which is what the premiers wrote to the finance committee about, which was the genesis of the situation in which we find ourselves right now.

We've seen seven out of 10 premiers object to the federal implementation of the carbon tax. The carbon tax has caused significant financial challenges for Canadians. It's this Prime Minister who's chosen to divide Canadians for political purposes. It's this Prime Minister who said that Canadians in one part of the country have to pay the tax while others don't. It's this Prime Minister and this Liberal government—

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I don't see how this relates to whether—