Government Operations Committee on March 27th, 2024

[Scott Moe]

I'd like to go on.

What this policy—

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Excuse me, Premier. I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry, Premier. Let me interrupt you. I'll freeze the time.

[Scott Moe]

I'd like to speak on behalf of Saskatchewan residents.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Premier, and we're eager to hear from you. I just have a point of order that I'd like the chair to clarify.

Specifically, this committee has been asked to study about 12 vote 1s, including one for the Canada Post Corporation, a vote regarding the Canada School of Public Service—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Could you get to the point of order, Mr. Kusmierczyk?

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Could you explain to us the relevance of the 12 votes that we have been assigned to consider? I don't see this particular subject matter connected in any way, shape or form to the 12 votes that this committee has been asked to study.

We are not the finance committee. We are the OGGO committee. We have been asked to study 12 votes—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm happy to answer that, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

How does that relate to what we've been asked to study?

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We have always allowed a very wide range of questioning on the estimates and the supplementary estimates. The rise in the carbon tax is included in the main estimates and is therefore part of them.

I will allow Premier Moe to continue.

[Scott Moe]

It's very important to Canadians.

This is one of the policies, which are stacking, that are making life more unaffordable for not only Saskatchewan residents but all Canadians as a whole. It's making industries less competitive. Those are industries that employ people in my community and quite likely in yours as well, and it is showing no measurable impact when it comes to reducing emissions.

I would point to the inflationary aspect of the carbon tax specifically today. When the latest consumer price index came out, Saskatchewan was at 1.7%, down from the 2% projected target that the Bank of Canada hit and one full point lower than the Canadian average. Statistics Canada said specifically that this was due to a decision the Saskatchewan government made to remove the carbon tax from home heating. You can imagine what would happen to our CPI nationwide if we were to pause, first of all, and then remove the consumer carbon tax on Canadians.

Where does this bring us today when we think about never saying never? That same Bank of Canada, over the last two years, has increased our interest rates on 10 different occasions. Just this week, they declared that Canada is in a productivity “emergency”. We don't need to accept this moving forward. We can make changes. Never say never. There is another way, and Saskatchewan has been working towards that for some time.

The Bank of Canada also indicated that investment needs to be brought into our nation. Saskatchewan is second in the nation when we compare, on a per capita basis, provincial investment today. We were up 25% last year and we're projected to be first this coming year, with another 14% increase. All Canadians need to encourage a competitive investment environment in each of our provinces and more broadly across the nation.

There are opportunities for us to take our investment and innovation and share it through commerce with the rest of the world. We should share it through article 6 of the Paris Agreement, for example, which this government signed and which I worked on as the environment minister with one of the previous environment ministers. Article 6 is an opportunity for us to create policies that allow for that investment and, in turn, share those investment innovations with the rest of the world through commerce by employing Canadians in my community and yours and utilizing some of the tools we have, such as article 6. There is another way. Never say never.

We need to ensure we are looking at some of our competitive environments, those that are employing people and creating wealth in our communities across this nation, to ensure they're providing the platform to attract capital investment and attract jobs. Ultimately, they would provide the opportunity for Canada to not be in a state of productivity emergency, but to be in a state where we are leading the world with the productivity we are experiencing as Canadians. Traditionally, that is what we all would like to achieve, and I hope that we will find some consensus on that today.

I wore my red tie in the spirit of collaboration. I wear it to our Council of the Federation meetings, where we come together from different political backgrounds and different political stripes in an effort and with an initiative to find a consensus on behalf of the Canadians we collectively represent at that table. This is an opportunity for all of us, those in the minority government we have today and those in opposition, to do what is in the best interests of Canadians. It's not just for today but for the future as well when it comes to creating jobs, sharing some of the sustainable innovations that have been invested in already in our nation and enhancing the opportunity for additional investments in those innovations in the industries we do well in.

The fact of the matter is that from a Saskatchewan perspective, we produce food, fuel and fertilizer. Not only do we produce the highest quality and most affordable food, fuel and fertilizer you can find in the world, which we produce for over 150 countries around the world, but we produce the most sustainable food, fuel and fertilizer you can find on earth. I think that is something for each of us to remember.

Never say never. We can always do better, and we should be making every effort to do that around this table on behalf of the folks we represent.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Premier Moe.

Mr. Redekopp, please go ahead. You have six minutes.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Premier Moe, it's great to have another common-sense Saskatchewan voice in Ottawa to talk about the carbon tax. It's very clear that the Liberals are nervous about this meeting and that they don't really want to hear from the people of Saskatchewan, but I do.

As you know, the Parliamentary Budget Officer has produced a report confirming that this year alone the average family in Saskatchewan is going to lose $525 to the carbon tax. The costly NDP-Liberal coalition plans to quadruple the carbon tax, meaning that families in Saskatchewan will ultimately see their losses increase to $1,723 a year, according to the same report. The NDP-Liberal coalition will be ripping thousands of dollars out of the pockets of people in Saskatchewan.

What's the impact of the carbon tax on families living in our province?

[Scott Moe]

That's the annual impact directly on Saskatchewan families, taking into account what they're paying for the carbon tax and some of the indirect costs coming to them due to the carbon tax—the costs, for example, at the grocery store.

What we have in this province is very much a natural resource-based economy rooted in agriculture, and we're trying to climb the economic value chain. We're trying to climb with respect to the jobs we're creating and the opportunities and market access we're creating. For example, we're attracting investment into the canola oil industry so we can provide canola oil as opposed to the raw seed. That's about climbing the value chain, and it's creating jobs here at home.

Where does the carbon tax come in? In addition to the direct impact of it on Saskatchewan families, who, I would put forward, drive more because we are more geographically dispersed, in particular families in the north, it comes with a significant impact on the jobs that are available here, because industries are looking at this as a hindrance for their investment. We have been able to attract significant investment in spite of, I would say, this hindrance, not in any way because of it. However, that's not to say that we aren't having active discussions with industry and with the people of Saskatchewan on how we can continue to reduce our carbon footprint.

The impact is very real to families directly. It's very real in particular to northern families, who traditionally have been heating their homes with electricity. They are seeing some solace and savings on that with the recent decision the provincial government has made. We extend to the federal government the opportunity to extend their decision around home heating fuel to all Canadians and to all types of heating fuel.

They are having some reprieve on that as we speak, but I would say they still have to drive a significant distance for any significant level of supplies. Families very much are feeling it directly. They're also feeling it through the job prospects and opportunities, which I'd say are strong in Saskatchewan but certainly could be even stronger.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

You've been a strong opponent of the carbon tax since you took office. Your predecessor, Brad Wall, was as well. You've had the opportunity to speak with the Prime Minister and launch legal challenges. How many different appeals have you made to Ottawa to stop the carbon tax?

[Scott Moe]

It's been all of them—on every occasion that I've had the opportunity to speak with the Prime Minister. Most recently, Saskatchewan had a significant presence at COP28 in Dubai. We had over 60 provincial and national businesses, delegations and industry representatives. Post-secondary folks who were with us there had the opportunity to speak with a couple of ministers, including the Minister of Environment, in that setting.

Each and every time, through multiple ministers and the Prime Minister himself, we have voiced our opposition to what essentially amounts to an inflationary tax. In the early days of its introduction—and I remember it well because I was the environment minister at the time—I was in Montreal when the Prime Minister rose to his feet and introduced it on Canadians. I believe it was on October 3, 2016, if I'm not mistaken. My predecessor, Brad Wall, very quickly asked, “Has anyone done the economic analysis on this?”

I think what we're seeing today, with the Bank of Canada's statement on the productivity emergency we are facing in this nation, tells us that, no, we haven't done an economic analysis on this policy and many others, but it's high time we did. I'm not in any way saying that we should be making decisions that increase the emissions in our industries, but we should be looking at the emissions in our industries relative to their counterparts and competitors in other areas of the world. Are we cleaner? Can we do more?

In the meantime, we should ensure we are making every effort to make our cleaner products available to the world, displacing some of the dirtier products that are produced in other areas. I think if you accept the fact that climate change is real and you accept the fact that climate change is a global challenge, not just one in Saskatchewan—or even in Canada, for that matter—we need to work together with our national partners on achieving global solutions.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

As you know, the federal NDP has been a strong supporter of the carbon tax, and they have voted to support this Liberal government every time, including a couple of times last week.

As premier, how do you feel about the NDP, a party that supports this hurtful carbon tax, seemingly against our farmers and our oil and gas producers, and that is not willing to listen to the pain of everyday folks in Saskatchewan?

[Scott Moe]

It's disappointing, because we have a provincial arm of that party here, the NDP, that opposes Saskatchewan's wishes to remove the consumer carbon tax from Saskatchewan families and, ultimately, remove the cost that it instills on the industries that are employing those very same families.

When it comes to oil and gas, for example, I'm happy to say that if the rest of the world produced oil and gas like we do in Saskatchewan with similar-type products, global emissions from oil production would drop 25% overnight. That hasn't come about easily. That has come about by investment in the Saskatchewan energy industry, like the investment in methane reductions. On the 60% methane reductions that were put forward a couple of years ago, our oil industry was actually able to meet them. They cannot get to the 75%. That will close down a significant part of the oil industry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks, Premier Moe. I have to cut you off there.

Mr. Kusmierczyk, please go ahead.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Chair, I believe it's Charles.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Sousa, go ahead.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Premier, for being here today.

Can you advise this committee when you were contacted to appear before us today?

[Scott Moe]

I don't know if I was contacted or if I had a discussion with another premier or two, but we asked to appear before the finance committee. We have not heard back from the finance committee at this point in time.

I guess I was contacted. I can't say exactly when. I can find out, though.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Did you have discussions last week about this?

[Scott Moe]

It was this past week. What day is today?