Evidence of meeting #113 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was saskatchewan.
A video is available from Parliament.
2 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I'm sorry, Mr. McKinnon. Could you please wait for me to interrupt and recognize you on your point of order?
Go ahead now, please, sir.
2 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
I'm sorry.
I don't really see the relevance of how this relates to the decision before us to meet tomorrow or not.
2 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
My point is that this Prime Minister and this Liberal government have always operated by dividing and seeking when to pit different groups of Canadians against each other.
2 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
The decision before us is whether we meet tomorrow or not. It has nothing to do with allegations about what this government is up to. I encourage all members to stick to the topic at hand.
2 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I'm afraid it's not up to you to encourage other members, but we take your point, Mr. McKinnon.
Mr. Lawrence, you can continue, sir.
2 p.m.
Liberal
2 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I'm sorry, Mr. McKinnon. If you wish to have a point of order, that's fine, but please wait until I recognize you.
Go ahead on the point of order, please, Mr. McKinnon.
2:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
I will challenge the chair. It is entirely within my purview to urge the members to take whatever action I deem appropriate. It's not up to the chair to criticize me on that basis. I certainly do encourage all members to realize that we have before us a decision to make on whether or not we meet tomorrow. I think we need to adhere to that motion.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
That's fine, Mr. McKinnon, but I don't think it's for you to decide on the relevance. As we've stated before many times in this committee and in others, we always allow rather wide latitude in discussions, especially in debate, but I understand your point.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Could you please just wait for me to finish my commentary, Mr. McKinnon?
As I said, we always allow very wide latitude on these issues. I was going to refer back to Mr. Lawrence, but go ahead again, Mr. McKinnon.
2:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
On a point of order, I am not deciding what is relevant or not. I am expressing my opinion as a member subbing into this committee that this discussion is not relevant. I'm entitled to make that observation. I'll let it rest there.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you very much.
The point I'm making—and I do appreciate my Liberal colleagues' listening intently to my commentary, and I will, for their sake, distill this down to the relevance. As I said, I've seen media reports on, I believe, four premiers who have written to the finance committee asking to talk to it about the impending increase in the carbon tax. Thus, the emergency is that on April 1 it will go up by 23%. We've heard testimony today from the Parliamentary Budget Officer that it increases the cost of food and that, on average, a family in Ontario, Alberta or anywhere else the backstop applies will be out money, in some cases thousands of dollars.
Right from the PBO's report we know that the fiscal and economic net loss in Alberta for the average household is $911. In Saskatchewan it's $525. In Manitoba it's $502. In my beautiful province of Ontario it's $627. In Nova Scotia it's $537. In Prince Edward Island it's $550. In Newfoundland and Labrador it's $377. We're in an affordability crisis. People are barely getting by, and I guarantee you that every one of the MPs here has gotten emails, letters or calls from distressed constituents who are finding it difficult to get by.
March 27th, 2024 / 2:05 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Mr. Chair, on a point of order, getting back to relevancy and tomorrow's meeting, I understand where Mr. Lawrence is coming from. He's not a regular member. If it were so important for regular members of the Conservative Party to show up, they would have shown up. I believe it was Jack Layton who said, if you want a promotion, you have to show up to work. I'm sorry but they didn't.
Mr. Lawrence knows he has tremendous respect from me. This meeting was called at the last minute. I just want to inform the committee members of the consequences. If we don't treat this motion today, the premiers will not be testifying tomorrow. There will be a motion to adjourn. You can feel how the majority of the members are not onside with what happened.
I'm just saying out of respect for the witnesses who are supposed to show up that, if nobody in this committee consents, then that is what's going to happen tomorrow. We ought to deal with this today out of respect. Then at some point the committee, if it wishes to, can pass the motion to have the premiers reappear at a point when all committee members are in favour.
Thank you.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you.
As I was saying, the carbon tax is a substantial and pressing issue. The reality is that we're not living in a vacuum. The carbon tax isn't a policy that's being proposed for a year or two years or five years down the line. The carbon tax is hurting people right now and it's set to increase by fully 23%. Four of the premiers of our great country have asked to speak to parliamentarians. I am more than willing and more than able to schedule my time in order to do so. It's completely within parliamentary rules to have any four Conservatives that they want on this committee, Mr. Drouin. We regularly sub in and sub out individuals for various different reasons. That's not unusual at all.
Certainly in the finance committee, at which I am a regular standing member, we've had numerous different members from the Liberal Party, from the NDP and from the Conservative Party, as well as from the Bloc Québécois. The reality is that this is a time-sensitive, pressing concern. April 1 the carbon tax is going to increase by fully 23%. We've heard from—
2:10 p.m.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
I would say that this is quite repetitious, so if he could make a new point, perhaps, that would be helpful.
Thank you.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you, Mrs. Atwin.
I do apologize. I probably did lose my train of thought through the numerous disruptions, but getting back to where I was, when we look at 2024, I went through the various net losses, the money coming out of Canadians' pockets when they can least afford it. In fact, GDP per capita since 2014 has not increased a dollar, not a penny and not a per cent. In the United States, it's increased by nearly 50%. Canadians are getting poorer, and then this is a sucker punch—